will_scholten — 2017-04-21T21:26:30-04:00 — #1
I'm just reading through the book of Hebrews and see red flags for what we are taught.
Here is Hebrews 1:9, I don't think loved and hated are past tense, here is my screenshot;
To me, this sounds exactly like;
**9 If a person will not listen to Torah,
even his prayer is an abomination.
10 Whoever causes the honest to pursue evil ways
will himself fall into his own pit,
but the pure-hearted will inherit good.**
Stern, D. H. (1998). Complete Jewish Bible: an English version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament) (1st ed., Pr 28:9–10). Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications.
So we can see Yahusha does not like lawlessness!!
24 The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 6:23–25). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
So we know for sure what righteousness is, don't we!
Warning to Pay Attention
2 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
The New International Version. (2011). (Heb 2:1–4). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Do you think the violation and judgement have to do with not keeping Torah?
10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. 11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters. c 12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters;
in the assembly I will sing your praises.” d
13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.” e
And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.” f
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, m fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
The New International Version. (2011). (Heb 2:10–18). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
So that by His death, He might break the power of him who hold the "Power Of Death" !! This is not talking about doing away with Torah is it!! Huge difference!
Warning Against Unbelief
7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” k
12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.” q
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
The New International Version. (2011). (Heb 3:7–19). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
*Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?**
What does John tell us about sin?
**3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.**
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
The New International Version. (2011). (1 Jn 3:3–10). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
It is pretty plain isn't it!
I will pause here so it does not get to long.
dave_l — 2017-04-22T04:58:47-04:00 — #2
Just that the Law we are now under as believers in Christ, is no longer the Ten Commandments. But the Law written in our hearts, energized by the Holy Spirit. You are breaking New Covenant Law trying to live the defunct Old Covenant Law. It is good as a commentary, but you reject Christ making it the rule of conduct instead of Love.
will_scholten — 2017-04-22T06:51:47-04:00 — #3
What does John tell us sin is?
In the following screen shot "wickedness" is sin!
Other problems is the scripture does not change!
No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
The New International Version. (2011). (Ga 1:6–9). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God p may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The New International Version. (2011). (2 Ti 3:12–17). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
dave_l — 2017-04-22T06:57:21-04:00 — #4
It is indeed sin. But you are sinning if you keep the Law. Why? Because under the New Covenant God motivates us by love. And love needs no Law. God aimed the Law at wicked people and it provided only material blessings for obedience, and curses for disobedience.
will_scholten — 2017-04-22T14:43:56-04:00 — #5
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? **10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”**
The New International Version. (2011). (Jn 14:9–21). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
How do we show are love to YHWH? 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.
15 “If you love me, keep my commands
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
The New International Version. (2011). (Mt 19:16–17). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
What do you have to do to receive eternal life? If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” w**
The New International Version. (2011). (1 Pe 1:13–16). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers/who breaks the law!!!!’
The New International Version. (2011). (Mt 7:23). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Dave I know what we have been taught, but these verses contradict what we have been taught, don't they!!
dave_l — 2017-04-22T15:20:47-04:00 — #6
Jesus as God would be telling people to keep the Ten Commandments. "His Commandments". Because they were still under the Law. But using the same verse in the New Covenant, his Commandments always were the Two Great Laws.
will_scholten — 2017-04-22T16:36:16-04:00 — #7
But they had the two great commandments in the OC to, right!
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. y 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 6:4–9). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
18 “ ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD
The New International Version. (2011). (Le 19:18). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
30 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations, 2 and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3 then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes x and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 30:1–3). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. 7 The LORD your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you. 8 You will again obey the LORD and follow all his commands I am giving you today. 9 Then the LORD your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors, 10 if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 30:6–10). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
What happened, why don't we impress them on our children, or anyone else? Lev. 19 and Deut. 6,30 are talking about a lot more than the two great, or 10 commandments, right!!!!
will_scholten — 2017-04-22T17:06:02-04:00 — #8
Now we will start with Hebrews chapter 4!
4 1 Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it; 2 for Good News has also been proclaimed to us, just as it was to them. But the message they heard didn’t do them any good, because those who heard it did not combine it with trust. 3 For it is we who have trusted who enter the rest.
Note;"Therefore, let us be terrified of the possibility that, even though the promise of entering his rest remains, any one of you might be judged to have fallen short of it;"
It is just as he said,
“And in my anger, I swore
that they would not enter my rest.”
**He swore this even though his works have been in existence since the founding of the universe. 4 For there is a place where it is said, concerning the seventh day,
“And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
Note; Since creation, YHWH has showed us how He wants the 7th day kept!!!
5 And once more, our present text says,
“They will not enter my rest.”
6 Therefore, since it still remains for some to enter it, and those who received the Good News earlier did not enter, 7 he again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David, so long afterwards, in the text already given,
“Today, if you hear God’s voice, don’t harden your hearts.”**
Note; How many of us have "hardened our hearts "a and disobey by obeying the day of the sun, because of what man says??
8 For if Y’hoshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later of another “day.”
9 **So there remains a Shabbat-keeping for God’s people. 10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also rested from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Therefore, let us do our best to enter that rest; so that no one will fall short because of the same kind of disobedience.
Note; **So there remains a Shabbat-keeping for God’s people. 10 For the one who has entered God’s rest has also rested from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Therefore, let us do our best to enter that rest; so that no one will fall short because of the same kind of disobedience.
YHWH warns us Keep the Sabbath or fall short of it by your disobedience!!!!
12 See, the Word of God is alive!** It is at work and is sharper than any double-edged sword—it cuts right through to where soul meets spirit and joints meet marrow, and it is quick to judge the inner reflections and attitudes of the heart. 13 Before God, nothing created is hidden, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him to whom we must render an account.
**Note; Before God, nothing created is hidden, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him to whom we must render an account.
I don't know about you, but I returned to YHWH'S Sabbath, and think it is time to spread the consequences if you don't keep His 7th Day Sabbath!!!**
Stern, D. H. (1998). Complete Jewish Bible: an English version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament) (1st ed., Heb 4). Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications.
14 Therefore, since we have a great cohen gadol who has passed through to the highest heaven, Yeshua, the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we acknowledge as true. 15 For we do not have a cohen gadol unable to empathize with our weaknesses; since in every respect he was tempted just as we are, the only difference being that he did not sin. 16 Therefore, let us confidently approach the throne from which God gives grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace in our time of need.
**Note; 15 For we do not have a cohen gadol unable to empathize with our weaknesses; since in every respect he was tempted just as we are, the only difference being that he did not sin.
IT DOES NOT SAY YAHUSHA KEPT IT, SO I DON'T HAVE TO!!!
Therefore, let us confidently approach the throne from which God gives grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace in our time of need.**
we need to live, so we can receive mercy and grace in our time of need!!!
Stern, D. H. (1998). Complete Jewish Bible: an English version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B’rit Hadashah (New Testament) (1st ed., Heb 4:14–16). Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications.
Now we can start keeping the 4th commandment, YHWH told us to make sure we REMEMBER!!!
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
The New International Version. (2011). (Ex 20:8–11). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
dave_l — 2017-04-23T06:15:04-04:00 — #9
The Two Great Laws always existed written in everyone's heart. Our sensitivity to them became dulled by sin. Circumcision of the Heart, also called the New Birth restored our sensitivity. With the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we can walk in the light of them with a heart felt desire.
But, wicked people do not live according to the Two Great Laws. They discern only enough to condemn themselves. God aimed the Ten Commandments at these. But the Ten Commandments only provided temporal physical reward for obedience, and death for disobedience.
God removed the wicked from Israel and abolished the Law, no longer needed, making Israel a spiritual nation of Born Again believers under Christ.
will_scholten — 2017-04-23T07:43:38-04:00 — #10
So how does this say you keep the 1st great commandment?
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
The New International Version. (2011). (Eze 36:27). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
If we no longer follow YHWH decrees and laws, do we just let our human nature be our guide to what is sin to YHWH?
dave_l — 2017-04-23T08:30:19-04:00 — #11
“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
Circumcision of the heart and the New Birth are the same. We receive a new nature that loves God and wants to live a holy life.
will_scholten — 2017-04-23T16:50:26-04:00 — #12
This is not new to NT people, people in the OT had it to, what happened to them?
dave_l — 2017-04-23T18:38:30-04:00 — #13
Anyone having faith in the OT was first born again with a new nature. They did not need the Ten Commandments. You did not need to tell Abraham or Job not to steal. Or threaten them with death if they did. It makes me wonder why you think you need the Ten Commandments when Paul says they were for wicked people.
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV 1900)
will_scholten — 2017-04-23T19:43:56-04:00 — #14
Are you reading these verses, lawless would be law breakers ( not under the law)
, disobedient to what? YHWH'S instructions for living a set apart life, maybe not keeping His Sabbaths, ungodly if you don't keep His appointed times, whose are you keeping?
unholy, how would you define that?
Can you show me the phrase "born again" anywhere in the OT?
dave_l — 2017-04-24T06:04:05-04:00 — #15
If you define Circumcision of the Heart, and the New Birth, both definitions are exactly the same. So all of the faithful OT saints were Born Again. And all the faithful NT saints were Circumcised in Heart.
will_scholten — 2017-04-25T19:29:20-04:00 — #16
You may want to watch the video here, I think it proves you are in error.
dave_l — 2017-04-25T20:20:50-04:00 — #17
I checked out the video producers on the net. I found this excerpt from Gotquestions.org;
"There are many things to test, question, and doubt within the teachings of 119 Ministries. Those involved in the Hebrew Roots movement are generally well-meaning, and their primary message regarding salvation is essentially true. However, their approach to Scripture is extremely prejudiced and can’t really be sustained, except in the minds of those who prefer to believe it to begin with."
So I didn't watch it.
will_scholten — 2017-04-25T20:37:55-04:00 — #18
When was the Triumphant Entry?
Remember Sunday does not fit scripture!
dave_l — 2017-04-25T20:42:49-04:00 — #19
Thankfully, we do not need to observe the Sabbath. If we did, you could not leave your house to go to church on Saturday. Or heat your house or drive your car on Saturday, Or cook meals. Plus you must not ever retire, and work six days a week till you drop.
will_scholten — 2017-04-25T20:51:57-04:00 — #20
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, f just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
The New International Version. (2011). (Heb 4:8–11). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
This tells me, there is!
next page →