tyrone_howard — 2017-07-11T15:41:42-04:00 — #1
Continuing the discussion from Why is it more acceptable for a woman to wear pants then to preach?:
justin_gatlin — 2017-07-11T23:29:30-04:00 — #2
No, not admit more than we are to imitate him by dying on a cross to take away the sins of the world. When it was fulfilled in Him, there is no purpose in our trying to complete the work He has already competed
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-07-12T02:35:11-04:00 — #3
We appropriate by believing in him and that he has accomplished and completed the work of redemption and that he fulfilled the works required by the law the benefits of his achievements to our lives.
We could not fulfill the requirements of the law for salvation anyways ... blood of a sinless sacrifice was needed, and no sinner thus would be able to achieve redemption and salvation from sin for themselves or anyone else in the first place ... Messiah Jesus' sacrifice did satisfy all requirements of the law, and anyone who puts their trust in (that is, believes in) him as their redeemer and savior is then granted as a free gift of grace salvation and everlasting life.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-12T09:58:42-04:00 — #4
Yet aren't we to still sacrifice? Praise, time, desires?
and are we not to walk as he walked sinless, striving for perfection? for if it were not possible would he have commanded us "be ye holy even as I am holy?"
I agree We are no longer under the condemnation the law brought about but do we disregard everything he instructed his people? or is it that we don't desire to be his people on earth we want to live our own way and make it to heaven anyways?
dave_l — 2017-07-12T12:32:17-04:00 — #5
“Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.” Romans 13:8–10 (NLT)
The Ten Commandments HUNG from the Two Great Commandments of Love for God and people (including enemies). The Ten Commandments were for the wicked unregenerate Jews.
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV 1900)
When God removed the wicked unbelieving Jews and their "law" from Israel, only the Born Again who followed Christ remained. Under the New Covenant love is the law we follow, if you can call it that. And we far exceed the legal righteousness of the wicked law keepers of old.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-12T13:30:35-04:00 — #6
Yet if you do any of the things forbid in the scriptures, or fail to do the things asked of in the scriptures by what do you showcase your Love?.
Love isn't words or feelings but actions. You can't say Oh I love my brother yet run him down because he's a sins, you can't say I love my enemy but run them down because he is lost and a sinner.
The commandments are yes, summed up in loving God and Others but how do you know HOW to love without the instructions of Love?
You can't say you Love Jesus yet do not the things which God says demonstrate love towards him.
You can't say you Love your Neighbor yet do not the things God says demonstrates love towards neighbors
You can't say you Love your enemy yet do not the things God says demonstrate love towards enemies.
The Commandment to Love is not an excuse, but a perfection that in doing those things which have been instructed you demonstrate your love So that one does not look at them as a burden but as a pelasure. The Law was a yoke, because it was do's and don'ts. Yet if you commit to Love, then the law is a Guide on How to demonstrate Love.
dave_l — 2017-07-12T14:47:39-04:00 — #7
Paul and John both say that the Born Again fulfill the Law by nature. “We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.” 1 John 5:18 (NLT)
“Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.” Romans 13:10 (NLT)
It is one thing not to steal or murder according to the Law. But those motivated by love need not be told this. Even Hitler or Capone could not do the things forbidden in the Law if there was something in it for them.
But how do you keep the Ten Commandments? If you really love your enemy as your own self, you will not merely avoid stealing from them, you will give your resources to them as though they are your equal. In fact, if they are your equal, you are stealing from them when you withhold your resources from them.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-12T15:31:34-04:00 — #8
As Usual the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of Truth will bring together what the DEvil intends to separate.
I follow the law, not as though I'm following the law, for I haven't read the entirety of it but out of Love. For Example.
I wear pants, long sleeve shirts at most times out of a dedication to Jesus. My prayer clothes would be different from everyday clothes and my ministering clothes would be different. Now these things are scriptural (I just found out today) yet were placed in the heart of another minister who shared them while preaching and I was convicted. Only today did I come across the scriptures supporting them, I don't know if he has ever even seen the scriptures, he was just praying and God Said come up to Standards and gave him some instructions - God revealed
My wife wears dresses because she has been taught since a child, to honor her husband and Jesus by keeping a distinct separation from that which a Man wears not because women pants are evil but they look like pants of a man with separate legs which divide the woman's private area, and create friction when the legs are crossed that shouldn't be there. - Taught By God Through Pastor
I visit the Prisons, streetwalkers to ministers because I read in scripture Jesus said many do not these things and yet say they know Jesus - God Revealed in Scripture.
All these things once revealed, out of Love for God We follow, not because we would be stoned if we didn't, but because we Love God we Love Neighbors we Love enemies, and this was how God revealed for us to show him.
Is this wrong in your eyes because the same things are found in the old and new covenants?
dave_l — 2017-07-12T15:50:30-04:00 — #9
Those with the Holy Spirit live in harmony with the Law even though it no longer serves its original purpose. God did not need to tell Abraham not to steal, or not to murder. Abraham did not want to do those things because of his Born Again nature.
It is all bondage that has no support from scripture under the New Covenant. How many people would not want your hang-ups and will ignore you because of that? You are misrepresenting Christ as far as I can tell.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-12T16:22:35-04:00 — #10
I think you misunderstood based on your answer. . . So let me rephrase.
If I do the things found in all of scripture, yet i profess not to do them under the law nor place any burdens on anyone else for them, and when asked my answer is out of Love for Jesus do I these things, You say to do these things is wrong?
gao_lu — 2017-07-12T18:01:32-04:00 — #11
I think I am following your thinking better now. You are saying that we do not need to keep "The Law," as in the letter of the Mosaic Law; yet you clearly acknowledge that the "The Law" in the sense of the will of God has not changed and that like Paul said (and you seem to be saying) in fact we "keep the Law" and more--we fulfill the Law. We fulfill it not by fussing about letters and details, but by knowing God and His heart so intimately that rather than "keeping the Law" externally, we live the Law internally which manifests externally. Thus, temple sacrifices are unnecessary because Christ is our sacrifice, yet "offerings of thanksgiving," for instance, are still required because that is the will of God and it is what Christians do.
So, we could say that we don't keep the Law, but we fulfill the Law, which on one hand is a minor difference, but on the other hand a huge difference.
Am I getting closer?
will_scholten — 2017-07-12T19:58:19-04:00 — #12
What does Jeremiah prophesy?
Please note, this has not happened yet!!!
Restoration of Israel
30 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD: 2 “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the LORD.”
4 These are the words the LORD spoke concerning Israel and Judah: 5 “This is what the LORD says:
“ ‘Cries of fear are heard—
terror, not peace.
6 Ask and see:
Can a man bear children?
Then why do I see every strong man
with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor,
every face turned deathly pale?
7 How awful that day will be!
No other will be like it.
It will be a time of trouble for Jacob,
but he will be saved out of it.
**8 “ ‘In that day,’ declares the LORD Almighty,
‘I will break the yoke off their necks
and will tear off their bonds;
no longer will foreigners enslave them.**
9 Instead, they will serve the LORD their God
and David their king,
whom I will raise up for them.
**10 “ ‘So do not be afraid, Jacob my servant;
do not be dismayed, Israel,’
declares the LORD.
‘I will surely save you out of a distant place,
your descendants from the land of their exile.
Jacob will again have peace and security,
and no one will make him afraid.
11 I am with you and will save you,’
declares the LORD.
‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,
I will not completely destroy you.**
I will discipline you but only in due measure;
I will not let you go entirely unpunished.’
The New International Version. (2011). (Je 30:1–11). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Some how I don't think Jeremiah is calling the law/torah of YHWH bondage.
We all agree the law/torah is for Israel, "in that day" Judah and Israel will be restored and YHWH will rise David up to be their king, and ALL the nations to which Israel and Judah were scattered, **" ‘Though I completely destroy all the nations
among which I scatter you,"**
Does any one want to explain what else they think this says?
Time is running out, we need to start letting what man says, go and start listening to what YHWH is telling us!!
dave_l — 2017-07-13T07:15:45-04:00 — #13
I think if you preach women should obey OT dress code, you are entangling their consciences with unnecessary rules that are now solely man made. Also male dress codes create religious bondage. Women actually sin if they think it is a sin to dress as most women do today. Not because it is sin, but because they cannot dress that way in faith. And whatever is not of faith is sin.
Paul, using circumcision as an example, tells us not to become entangled again with the yoke of bondage. But the principle applies to any requirement of the Law. If you keep only one point, you must keep all of it. Which Christ made impossible on the cross.
dave_l — 2017-07-13T07:35:47-04:00 — #14
Paul says the Ten Commandments were for wicked unbelievers. “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV 1900)
Abel, Job, Abraham and others of like faith did not need being told not to murder, steal, or commit adultery. They had the Two Great Commandments, originally written in everyone's heart, fully disclosed in their hearts through the New Birth (Circumcision of the Heart). Apart from the New Birth the laws remain obscured by sin and can only bring damnation.
Where wicked people might not steal or murder if it were to their benefit, They would be good for all the wrong reasons. Not being motivated by God's love.
But, how do Christians fulfill the Law? By merely not stealing or murdering? Or by not committing adultery? No, Christians fulfill the requirements of the moral law by walking in the light of the Two Great Commandments written in the heart. We give to people instead of stealing from them. We bless and help to prosper, enemies others would want to kill. Christians do the exact opposite of what the Law forbids through God's love in our hearts. The entire NT ethic is based on doing the opposite of what the Law forade.
dave_l — 2017-07-13T07:47:23-04:00 — #15
Why do you quote the New Testament (Covenant) so much if it doesn't exist?
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-13T12:09:20-04:00 — #16
I don't think, because of the language barrier and @Dave_L desire to be right in how he words, that he will ever concede to w wording outside of that which he's created. Yet yes, Based on everything he says, this is in essence what he is saying. Just for him, the term 'the law' creates his defense.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-13T12:13:26-04:00 — #17
I was not talking about preaching, I was talking about my life.
Yet I do disagree with you point here. I believe you preach what your are instructed to by God regardless what anyone thinks feels or otherwise. You do not base your preaching on the level of acceptance or even the reception you may or may not get. You preach the word of God as you have received by revelation. Their conscious is to be provoked to a Godly jealousy through the word of God. Christians ought not to feel comfortable in the world, we are not of this world. Merely pilgrims. This though, is an entirely different topic If you wish to engage.
we can only go in circles from here, and I prefer to resolute this discussion with you, on semi-common grounds explained best by Gao and further consigned by your followup post to him. In which a simple yes would have sufficed. Be Blessed.
dave_l — 2017-07-13T12:33:49-04:00 — #18
I believe you advocate a dress code for women that binds their consciences with unnecessary and unscriptural baggage. And you misrepresent Christ in doing so. You can dress as you wish, but if you think it makes you a cut above the rest, it too is unnecessary and unscriptural baggage.
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-13T12:41:23-04:00 — #19
then you don't read very good. I don't preach anything but Jesus Christ and himself Crucified and I don't know how many times I've posted this. I don't preach revelations given to me, deeper understandgings of scripture, dress code, ethics, morals, politics, NOTHING.
For One, I am not a pastor and I don't have a flock to watch over and protect, so for me I have a very simple task given to me by Jesus, to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ unto Salvation, Deliverance and Healing.
Now myself, I believe in Holiness, and I don't believe it makes me a cut above the rest.
Yet I do believe it allows people to see a clear distinction between me and the world, allowing me to be a very bold, bright, and unmistakable sign pointing others to Jesus Christ, because when they inquisitively ask me why I tell them about a man, who took me from the streets and made me the head and not the tail. Who took my rags and dressed me in the priestly garments you see.
Nobody instructed me in Dress, the Holy Ghost convicted me of my attire, reminding me I am of a Royal Priesthood and my nakedness ought not to be shown to anyone but my wife.
dave_l — 2017-07-13T12:48:21-04:00 — #20
So you run on vibes and not scripture? The Holy Spirit does not contradict scripture.
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