News & Current Events
eric_seelye — 2016-11-29T13:09:06-05:00 — #1
Now for this week's JoNova update:
Nothing could be better for the state of affairs in the US than for the lamestream media, those purveyors of distorted, left-slanted news, to be taken down a peg.
bill_coley — 2016-11-29T16:25:20-05:00 — #2
The president-elect's meeting with the media happened under false pretenses: Media reps were under the impression that the president-elect wanted to talk about the nature of the media/administration relationship for the next four years, when in fact the president-elect wanted to lecture them for doing their job.
What the "lamestream media" did during the campaign, Eric, was to tell the truth about then candidate Trump's words and actions. As a candidate, Trump lied more and more frequently than any candidate, perhaps in American political history. So many and consequential were his lies that the respected fact checker Politifact decided that the "lie of the year" for 2015 was not any one statement made by a politician, but basically the entire Donald Trump campaign.
HERE'S A LIST of 101 of Trump's more prominent lies. If you think this list of his lies is "left-slanted," you will find many other collections of his lies via simple Google searches.
There was a time not too long ago in American political life when conservative, Evangelical Christian voters protested loudly, even angrily, when their political leaders lied. Honesty and truth-telling, those voters asserted, were "family values." One unforseen consequence of Mr Trump's taking the "lamestream media" "down a peg" has been the demotion of truth-telling on the American political value tree for many, including, in my view, for many Evangelical Christians.
- That the president-elect and/or his transition team lied to media reps about the reason for their meeting, didn't elicit their protests.
- That he lied in his tweet the other night in which he claimed "millions of people voted illegally" didn't raise their concerns.
- That he lied repeatedly throughout his campaign for the highest office in the land, and did so at a rate FAR greater than any other candidate, apparently raised few red flags among his supporters.
In my view, the Trump candidacy took the "lamestream media" "down a peg" in large part because those outlets have never had to cover a candidate like Donald Trump, one who is willing to lie about ANYTHING at ANY TIME, and in fact during his candidacy left a recorded and published trail of lies about anything at any time. As a result, the media will have to adjust. I think THIS POLITICO PIECE is an effective primer to media outlets as they prepare to cover a president the truth of whose every word will throughout his term ALWAYS AND FOR GOOD REASON be subject to serious doubt and skepticism.
My word to you and those who share your views, Eric, is that just as the media had to adjust to a candidate who lies what seems to be every time he opens his mouth, so you folks will have to adjust to media outlets which report that candidate-cum-president's lies to a public, for reasons known only to God, only a portion of which will even bother to care.
p.s. Eric, perhaps you'll share your reaction to the president-elect's well documented history of lying? Does it bother you that he has lied so much? Is there any amount of lies he could tell that for you would disqualify him from the office? Or are you of the opinion that the things media outlets and online fact checkers called lies were actually mostly true, and that the president-elect has no history of distorting the truth?
alex_vaughn — 2016-11-29T16:26:04-05:00 — #3
If Trump has broken the media, then it spells trouble for our democracy, and could pave the way for an authoritarian presidency. That is the reason why we have Freedom of the Press in the Bill of Rights.
P.S. Some conservatives also have observed Trump's authoritarian rhetoric. Whether he goes from rhetoric to action is a question only time can answer. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430126/donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination
bill_coley — 2016-11-29T16:41:22-05:00 — #4
Good point, Alex.
I think a truth to which many Americans, especially those who are politically partisan, fail to give sufficient weight is that the relationship between a free press and the governing administration is by default, and probably by design, always adversarial. The role of the press is to speak truth to power. The role of the powerful is to respect the right (NOT privilege!) of the press to ask questions and pursue truth, however troublesome and meddlesome that right becomes.
The president-elect, in my view, is a pathological liar - he doesn't even realize that he's making things up as he speaks. So I doubt seriously that he will ever adjust to or show respect for the press's necessary role in our society. In addition, he is not used to the scrutiny and accountability for which the Washington press corps is (in)famous, a reality which I expect to result in more resistance from the Administration and, therefore, even more scrutiny and accountability from the press.
May God inspire our free press not to be denied or dissuaded from their mission.
gao_lu — 2016-11-29T16:41:48-05:00 — #5
At last someone (Trump) is standing up against a horrendous propaganda machine that only a small subset of the population believes anymore--and then because they find the stream of toxicity emotionally or aesthetically more appealing than truth. The news for such people has become an Orwellian entertainment mill--telling them how and what to think. However most of mainstream free press has failed. Most Americans are seeing this and however they respond, they have at least one huge thing in common with Trump--they don't find the media credible (respect here to the few who claim they do trust it).
Trump is in a position to stand up to them, and has the grit to do so. Successfully. He stands with at least 60% of Americans who distrust major media - who have lost confidence in a free press that doesn't tell the truth.
gao_lu — 2016-11-29T17:07:04-05:00 — #6
Further: I wonder if the media's sudden interest in "fake news" is just a smoke screen to cover their tail for propagating so much of it--a distraction to condition the public not to believe the little Truth that might be told when such truth is not convenient.
bill_coley — 2016-11-29T17:38:54-05:00 — #7
The media's "sudden interest" in "fake news" arises from the fact that so many - disproportionately Trump supporters and others on the right - believe that "fake news" is real. HERE'S A STORY from ABC News which tells of a man who created a fake story about a previously unreleased transcript of a Hillary Clinton speech in which she told people in a Goldman Sachs' boardroom that Bernie Sanders' supporters were "a bucket of losers." He made the whole thing up, but that didn't stop Fox News, among others, from publicizing it as fact. To its credit, Fox apologized for believing and distributing the falsehood.
IN ANOTHER THREAD I POSTED LINKS TO TWO OTHER STORIES about the phenomenon of these fake news stories that Trump supporters are accepting as truth. The fact that kids in the Balkans (see the link in first sentence of this paragraph) figured they could make money from Trump supporters who, they believed, would gravitate en masse to negative stories about Hillary Clinton, whether those stories were true or not, IS a story for the media's "sudden attention."
The bottom line, Gao Lu, is that "fake news" is a legitimate news media story because lots of people believed and passed along as truth stories that other people knowingly, intentionally, and often for profit, made up. In my view, when Americans in large numbers believe made up news created and then posted, for example, on Facebook or other social outlets, that itself is news.
As a Trump supporter, you're likely in a FAR better position than I to explain why Trump supporters so disproportionately believed "fake news" stories posted on social media. What's your best guess as to why they did? Did you personally believe any of those "fake news" stories before learning they were made up?
gao_lu — 2016-11-29T18:30:21-05:00 — #8
It's legitimate alright.
I am passing on the troll bait.
dave_l — 2016-11-29T18:43:32-05:00 — #9
I don't condone all the ruckus going on with the new government and the press. But at least they are no longer sleeping with each other....
bill_coley — 2016-11-29T18:58:01-05:00 — #10
I'm curious how you describe the two posts you made in this thread - THIS ONE and THIS ONE - about the media "covering its tail," they being a "horrendous propaganda machine" with its "stream of toxicity" contributing to an "Orwellian entertainment mill"? Something other than "troll bait"?
Pot, meet kettle.
lu1 — 2016-11-29T19:21:42-05:00 — #11
I have my doubts that the "Mainstream Media" is taken down a peg. The best analogy is it is a modern day mythical Lernaean Hydra. You cut off one head and either one or multiple head(s) grow back. It is the responsibility of the individual to get the truthful & relevant news information from many sources.
In this day and age of the internet there is no excuse. At least with CNN / MSNBC & Fox News you know going in what you are getting. The difference is there doesn't seem to be a dissenting voice for two outlet to counter their position and the other does. I say position because their is a predisposed assumption of these outlet I stated before they start. I find the AP News service very troubling as well as NY Times ( how their standards have fallen ) they clearly have a slant and as for me I have little faith in their responsible journalism. I do like Reuters News it seems more balanced but as I said their are many sources one can look to for their news on the internet. Christian News outlet is another sources, they usually report things factually and far less editorializing.
gao_lu — 2016-11-29T20:47:58-05:00 — #12
So glad to see you back Lu. You are always a reasonable, thinking mind offering much value.
gao_lu — 2016-12-02T18:49:19-05:00 — #13
My fresh observation is that Trump may be a catalyst moving mainstream media back toward healing--healing broken bones they keep breaking themselves. Maybe, maybe not, but the media seem bent on fleeing to the pit. Here is a fresh example of taking an event twisting, it, turning it into bullying and a witch hunt. Does it sell to readers? Advertisers? What kind? I guess Trump doesn't play nice with such media, so they have found someone new to bully. It probably wont work either, which is why when Trump pulls their bluff, they have an opportunity to grow.
eric_seelye — 2016-12-02T19:11:06-05:00 — #14
Gao Lu, did you get the correct link inserted here? It takes me to an interesting scene of Max McLean reading the Gospel of Mark. It's interesting to see what McLean looks like, I've often admired his audio Bible recordings.
gao_lu — 2016-12-02T19:25:24-05:00 — #15
My goof up! That is so funny! I sent that link to my children about the same time as writing the post. Well, I am pleased to have shared it! I love McClean's reciting/acting of the Bible. I have long lost the other link, so maybe with apologies I will just leave it be.
Here is a repeat of the erroneous link just because it is so good! I hope it fixes what I broke!
raghuveer_singh — 2017-07-19T21:13:43-04:00 — #16