lu1 — 2016-07-17T19:57:19-04:00 — #1
eric_seelye — 2016-07-17T22:30:48-04:00 — #2
Thanks, Lu, that was good. Is that clip from the film "War Room?" I think I remember seeing that DVD in the Christian Book catalog. I have wondered if it was good.
Speaking of Christian films, I heard the other day that the "God's Not Dead" project was planning a release of something called, "God's Not Dead: The Evidence." We're looking forward to that one.
charles_mcneil — 2016-07-18T00:47:03-04:00 — #3
The principle point, to surrender to Christ, one's life, is understood in the clip (via, drama script). However, shouldn't one pray to God and not the "Devil?" My thoughts are more to the script writer(s) and producers. Are they Christians? Or, are they non-christians that produced a Christian Film (War Room)?
I said this because of what Jesus said, when his disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray. See, Luke 11:1-4 (KJV):
1. "And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2. "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3. "Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil." Luke 11:1-4 (KJV)
Must one address the "evil one" (Satan) directly, first to follow Christ? Let's keep in mind, Lucifer is a fallen angel. He's not to be worshipped or prayed to for any reason(s). Man is not to pray to him for anything. Our strength is in Jesus the Christ--The Anointed One. He is the source of our deliverance from all things evil or unlike God.
Jesus can address Lucifer because he's the Creator. Lucifer is an angel (perfect at creation). God made the angels. In talking to Lucifer, Jesus was not praying to or worshiping him. God has the right and the authority to address any of the created (fallen or not). Watch the movie, "War Room" and consider using the above points as a part of the after discussions. Peace! CM
dave_l — 2016-07-18T06:42:56-04:00 — #4
Jesus gave us authority over the Devil and demons. Often times the disciples commanded evil spirits to leave their victims "in the name of Jesus".
“The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!”” (Luke 10:17)
They were not praying to the Devil, only marshaling him around using Jesus' name. The seven sons of Sceva tried this but because they did not know Christ on a personal level, the man in whom the Spirit was seriously wounded them.
“And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.” (Acts 19:15–16)
As a result, many brought their demonic occult books into the street and burned them.
“And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.” (Acts 19:18–19)
charles_mcneil — 2016-07-18T07:48:06-04:00 — #5
Let's keep in mind Paul was specially empowered by God, to bring deliverance (those demonically trapped) and not sought deliverance for himself (i.e. Lk 10:17 Ac 5:16 Ac 8:7 Ac 16:18 Ac 19:12).
The disciples were commissioned to demand of the demons; and not to seek and speak out of bargaining, frustration and anger for themselves. You rightly stated what happened to "the itinerant Jewish exorcists [Seven sons of a high priest named Sceva] undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits..." (Acts 19:13). This is a lesson for all of us. CM
dave_l — 2016-07-18T08:32:22-04:00 — #6
Thanks for your thoughts Charles. The way I understand New Testament exorcism is that it belongs entirely to believers.
The Daughter of Abraham (believer) whom Satan had bound for eighteen years until Jesus delivered her being a perfect example.
All other cases of deliverance from Demons applied to believers only. The most severe, the Gadarine Demoniac was a Born Again believer in that he worshiped Jesus; “But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshiped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.” (Mark 5:6–7)
All other cases of deliverance applied only to those having faith, or faith in behalf of their loved ones who were possessed. Jesus also used exorcism as proof the Kingdom had arrived; “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.” (Luke 11:20)
lu1 — 2016-07-18T08:45:22-04:00 — #7
I heard the same thing... Unfortunately I have not seen the first movie. Only boot leg here so I don't watch it.
lu1 — 2016-07-18T08:48:20-04:00 — #8
Definition of Christian prayer
Christian meditation is a structured attempt to get in touch with and deliberately reflect upon the revelations of God. The word meditation comes from the Latin word meditārī, which has a range of meanings including to reflect on, to study and to practice.
I don't get the sense she was praying to Satan.
eric_seelye — 2016-07-18T12:07:54-04:00 — #9
I agree with Lu here. I think there is a difference between what we Christians mean by prayer, and addressing Satan or his minions directly. I think we can address the forces of the Evil one, either out loud, as in the clip, or mentally (silently). To do so is not prayer, in my mind.
charles_mcneil — 2016-07-18T16:00:16-04:00 — #10
Please tell me who was the woman talking to? Review the clip. Better yet, watch the entire movie, if necessary.
Why address Satan or his "minions" at all? He's a fallen evil angel. He's not God. He's not humanity's or the Christian's friend. Lucifer, Satan, is Christ's (and anyone who's called by His name, trusts Him or disciples) sworn enemy.
Do you go to your enemies for help or make a request to them, to be delivered, when it's their will and business to harass and enslave? Did Daniel called on the Babylonian gods when he was thrown into the lion's den?
Come on, Eric and Lu, if you haven't seen the clip, ok; but if you've seen it or the entire movie, let's keep it real. Even in our fear or frustration, we are not to address demonic forces. Jesus fights our battles. Call on him, especially, for deliverance, in time of stress and other times for praise and thanksgiving. CM
lu1 — 2016-07-18T20:04:54-04:00 — #11
Look at the definition of prayer posted before... I don't see meditation, I see confrontation.
charles_mcneil — 2016-07-18T20:14:35-04:00 — #12
Have you seen the video clip above or the movie? CM
lu1 — 2016-07-18T20:17:39-04:00 — #13
I posted it clip... I have not seen the full movie though. Why do you ask?
charles_mcneil — 2016-07-18T20:19:45-04:00 — #14
Who is the woman talking to in the video clip? Until you can see the entire movie. CM
lu1 — 2016-07-18T20:30:10-04:00 — #15
I having a hard time with why you can't see the difference between confrontation and meditation... She is speaking in confronting the devil no one is denying that. She is not praying to the devil, though... I see a difference.
In Scripture there are people and angels that confront the devil. Jesus did in His Temptations and that was our example. The Apostles did, Michael the Arch Angel did...
In all candor if you feel this is wrong then don't do it in your personal life. It is your right not too.
I believe if you are in God's will you can speak out and again I don't see this as prayer... because prayer is mediative state in my mind not confrontational state. We are given authority in Christ... to confront the powers and principalities of this world. Not to cower in a corner... It is not called spiritual warfare for no reason...
But I also want to say I respect your concern & your warning about your point though you didn't articulate it. That we should be careful in spiritual warfare. That is a real concern and important point to remember... thank you for your insights CMc.