News & Current Events
gao_lu — 2017-10-05T19:40:44-04:00 — #21
I think that may be true---temporarily within a given culture. Other cultures with extremely high suicide rates do just fine ending their lives without firearms. They figure out plenty of ways. Maybe American culture would as well--though we are pretty averse to discomfort.
gao_lu — 2017-10-05T19:50:11-04:00 — #22
The solution is easy. Take away all guns (that we can find--which might be 10% of them). Put up seamless security cameras on every street and building. Have hundreds of thousands of volunteers wandering every public and private place "watching" and reporting anything suspicious in every city. Register the location and behavior of every living soul every single day of their lives. Rate people with social report cards. Install well-armed militia along the streets. Have untold plain-clothed secret "watchers" reporting what they see. Have various uniformed, well-armed officials in groups marching here and there--very visible. Arrange regular caches of riot gear and crowd-control weapons along the streets. Etc.
That would lower the incidence some over time.
bill_coley — 2017-10-05T21:06:17-04:00 — #23
I'd settle for universal background checks, regulation of private gun sales as if they were public sales, and a reduction in the maximum capacity of ammunition magazines.
But I'm glad you're willing to think about solutions!
gao_lu — 2017-10-05T21:13:21-04:00 — #24
Well you have good solutions to think about as well. Thanks. Frankly, I think they are little more than useless and only cost a fortune, infringe on freedom, compromise American rights and likely reduce little or nothing. Might help briefly till people re-orient to new, more gruesome methods to do the same thing.
justin_gatlin — 2017-10-05T21:23:15-04:00 — #25
I think that is fair, although even between countries, the relationship between gun ownership and suicide is quite strong. Still, it is hard to account for other factors that might drive both. I just mean it is peculiar how quickly that is dismissed out of hand, against the evidence.
justin_gatlin — 2017-10-05T21:48:03-04:00 — #26
I think a simple solution would be to require gun stores, shows and private sellers all to get photo ID to make a gun sale and include a small, holographic mark on all government issued photo ID indicating "this citizen is not a felon." Make it verifiable online at no charge (number and date of birth bring up picture and address) and with no registry kept.
Democrats can check it before selling guns and Republicans can check it as people go to vote. Everybody is happy, cost and inconvenience are minimal. The depressed and the mentally ill can voluntarily opt into a "vote only" symbol like gambling addicts can get on a "no casino" list. They can remove the restriction at any time, but they cannot buy a gun until their new plastic ID comes in, to provide a cooling off period.
bill_coley — 2017-10-05T22:54:06-04:00 — #27
Please don't fret that any of the actions I advocate will be taken. As I have noted in this thread and others, as a nation we've decided - or at least our decision-making system has decided - that 12,000 murders and 21,000 suicides a year is a price worth paying for what you call "freedom" and "American rights."
Whether, as perhaps you do, people believe we're going to kill ourselves and each other anyway, so we might as well let us do it in a constitutionally-protected manner, or people believe the second amendment vetoes any and all possible infringements on the right to keep, bear, and shoot guns, the result will be the same: A violent culture, knowingly and intentionally armed, occasionally - make that, ever-more-frequently - asked to pause briefly in respectful silence to honor the latest victims of its expanding arsenal, before returning to its guns and ammo, with the defacto blessing of a culture unwilling to challenge the boundaries of its "freedom" and "American rights."
david_taylor_jr — 2017-10-05T23:17:45-04:00 — #28
For the record, a gun is an inanimate object that doesn't kill anyone.
bill_coley — 2017-10-06T00:09:48-04:00 — #29
So are tanks and machine guns. Let's legalize them because Vegas assassin wannabes will be frustrated when the tanks won't fit in hotel elevators. That'll mean the only inanimate objects that never killed anybody the assassins use to kill people will be wimpy machine guns... and whatever arsenal they brought with them when they checked into their rooms.
We might be onto something, David.
EDIT: And I still hope to read your reactions to the data I presented earlier, about the stark difference in per capita overall murder and murder by gun rates in the U.S. and Britain/Japan. Am still hoping you'll share your explanation of the role of the Gospel in nations which produce significantly lower rates than we do (which is seemingly every major industrial nation on earth).
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-06T02:24:24-04:00 — #30
Perhaps because of people being brainwashed from childhood bv "Hollywood" into regarding human life as not having much of a value, since every day hundreds of murders are shown on TV in TV Series (some in even graphic detail) and movies .... almost "non-chalantly" ?? Perhaps because such TV episodes and movies show killing by shooting as almost "the normal thing" to get rid of someone you don't like or the regular procedure by police and special agents??
gao_lu — 2017-10-06T02:27:23-04:00 — #31
We are not buying "gun rights" for the price of murder. If we want to stop violence, great. Gun control is like throwing dust into a tornado. Helps, but not much. We have vastly more effective means to produce vastly great results. For example, consider an area where you personally support buying millions of murders for the price of a very dubious "right." Abortion.
One of the first and best ways to stop violence, especially violence against minorities, violence against women, and violence against youth is to outlaw abortion.
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-06T02:28:08-04:00 — #32
Let's make their use illegal ... perhaps the rate of wars and the amount of people killed in wars may decrease ?
tyrone_howard — 2017-10-06T09:49:27-04:00 — #33
This is the best point on this Thread.
@Bill_Coley I am interested in this response. But its not only to you, but to anyone
Do you value human life more as it gets older?
If not then how do you justify your support of "Murder through Abortion" yet want to prevent "Murder by Gun-Violence"
In my opinion at least the victims had a choice to attend the concert. The babies were never given a choice at all.
bill_coley — 2017-10-06T09:54:55-04:00 — #34
In your post, you assert your view that it would be "great" were we to "stop violence," but you then dismiss "gun control" as action akin to "throwing dust into a hurricane." You devote the rest of your post to the issue of abortion, concluding with your view that making it illegal would be "one of the first and best ways to stop violence."
While abortion is an issue critically important to tens, perhaps hundreds of millions of Americans, it's not the issue of this thread. It is in keeping with the issue(s) of this thread that I ask what actions do you believe the U.S. should take to reduce gun violence? And what, in your view, explains the fact that the U.S. murder rate is five times that of Britain, and more than 400 times that of Japan? that the percentage of murders in the U.S. in which guns are used is 14 times higher than in Britain? What contribution, if any, do you believe Britain's tighter gun control laws make to those results?
gao_lu — 2017-10-06T10:21:41-04:00 — #35
Bill, I respectfully and enthusiastically disagree. Your last post does not camouflage the elephant in the living room at all. Gun control may be the topic, but probably not because we all think controlling guns is a great thrill. The point of gun control is to stop violence. Yet, gun control is a speck of dust in reducing violence compared to ending abortion. I reassert my point loud and clear without apology and with devotion--if we want to stop violence, the answer is not gun control, the answer is to stop abortion.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-10-06T10:34:38-04:00 — #36
More babies are murdered by "doctors" and "women's rights" each year than there are people killed by guns.
bill_coley — 2017-10-06T11:20:11-04:00 — #37
However loudly, clearly, devotedly, and without apology you reassert your point, Gao Lu, your point is not responsive to the topic of this thread or to the murder/gun statistics for the U.S. Britain, and Japan that I asked you about.
The number of "babies... murdered by 'doctors' and 'women's rights' each year" is also not responsive to the topic of this thread or to the murder/gun statistics for the U.S. Britain, and Japan that I asked you about, David.
I respect the passion with which both of you hold your views on abortion. Should you wish to engage the issue more completely in these forums, I suggest that you initiate a new thread, or resurrect one of the many previous CD threads of which abortion was the focus.
For THIS thread, however, I choose to remain on topic, and hence ask you both again for your reactions to the data I presented earlier, about the stark difference in per capita overall murder- and murder-by-gun rates in the U.S. and Britain/Japan. What, in your view, explains the fact that the U.S. murder rate is five times that of Britain, and more than 400 times that of Japan? that the percentage of murders in the U.S. in which guns are used is 14 times higher than in Britain? What contribution, if any, do you believe Britain's tighter gun control laws make to those results?
bill_coley — 2017-10-06T11:30:38-04:00 — #38
While I respect the authentic spirit with which you ask these questions, Tyrone, I will not address them in this thread because, in my view, to do so would create a momentum that would take the conversation far afield from the topic of this thread.
You're of course free to engage with those who choose to respond to you here, but I encourage you to initiate a new thread with the questions you ask here as its focus.
gao_lu — 2017-10-06T18:03:28-04:00 — #39
You can frantically try to kink the hose or shut off the spigot of the inconvenient, obvious truth; but overshading the topic of this thread, in fact, the whole point is "The answer" to deadly violence. Gun control matters but is incidental. If you choose not to talk about the matter that is fine, but all the other posters here are doing so because we find it precisely on topic.
Gun control might help a little, but the answer to the problem is not gun control. In today's world, there is something we can all do, something immense and within grasp to stop the vast killing, killing far worse than Hitler, PolPot, Mao and Stalin combined, a killing-violence focused against minorities, women and babies--stop abortion.
bkmitchell — 2017-10-06T19:29:57-04:00 — #40
Greetings Bill Coley,
This is an interesting point:
Less than one percent of Japanese nationals are Christian and as you in hinted at in post#20 it is highly doubtful that the gospel had anything to do with their laws and attitudes toward gun use and ownership.
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