News & Current Events
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-29T12:18:54-04:00 — #1
The Below quote, mentioning "the race card" sparked some thought, see below.
Continuing the discussion from College kids react to racism in america:
Racism Exist and is Wrong.
Minorities using the Race Card, exist and Is Wrong.
Privilege is a reality.
The country I live in is Brave Strong and Compassionate. Yet I know first hand that it has a problem, called Racism. This ideology is rooted deep within its core and although many have stepped up and out of the shadows of racism both black and white there remains a problem.
Minorities often victims of racism, have been known to "pull the race card". A Card of self pity, and victim-mindset passed down through the generation and culture causing our young black men, mainly - to walk with their hand out expecting - believing they deserve something extra at no cost. No-one deserves Anything - Everything must be earned.
Privilege. Is the self inherited benefit of being apart of the socially accepted majority in a particular country, culture or nation. It affords the bearer an elevated voice, benefit of the doubt, lighter consequence, and do-overs. It is the responsibility of those found in possession to use these benefits for the greater good of the down trodden. Silencing themselves, denying their privilege or turning a blind eye to problems in this country, are also a benefit of this Privilege for No black man, a victim or witness of racism is afforded this option. In America, the simplest form of Privilege is the comfort of Being an American. Not a subcultured-American.
I must first view the world as a Black Man then as an American.If racism did not exist, this too would not be necessary.
Questions to consider in response
Does racism Exist? How do we Know this? Why is it or Why is it Not in existence?
Do you accept Privilege or deny its existence
What do we do in our daily Lives to combat Racism?
Have we experienced, someone we know play the race card? How does this make you feel?
Should minorities be allowed to play the race card - to make up the difference for the suffering received?
And Did Obama's election in 2008 and re-election in 2012 Prove that America is No Longer Racist?
dave_l — 2017-08-29T12:21:25-04:00 — #2
You are falsely accusing the American people of something they are clearly not guilty of. Racism exists but it is not the norm. Mr. Obama proves this by his two Presidential wins.
dave_l — 2017-08-30T05:22:42-04:00 — #4
exploit the specified issue or idea mentioned, especially for political advantage.
"he resisted the temptation to play the race card"
“The sluggard says, “There is a lion in the road! There is a lion in the streets!”” (Proverbs 26:13) And I think this is true also of those who blame their social status on racism. Perhaps some even use it as an excuse to work the system. Or blame it instead of their own wickedness for their miserable lives.
President Obama trashed the race card when he proved America is not racist by winning the Presidency twice. And he proved the system works for any who are willing to work.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-30T10:36:10-04:00 — #5
Thank you for sharing your views - Maybe some others will Chime in -
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-30T13:29:36-04:00 — #6
I agree on both accounts.
dave_l — 2017-08-30T13:36:11-04:00 — #7
Do you think America is racist? Or only has a few fringe groups who are racist?
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-30T14:17:44-04:00 — #8
Fringe groups. The country as a whole is definitely not racist. Can't be. We had an African American President for two terms. That would never happen in a truly racist country.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-30T15:10:57-04:00 — #9
David Taylor Jr. thank you for sharing your views.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-30T15:24:04-04:00 — #10
You made a statement, that Obama could never be elected in a country which was truly Racist. I offer these Numbers and welcome your response.
There are 323 Million people in America
250 Million Americans didn't vote for Barack Obama.
Obama won 69 Million Votes in 2008 & 65 Million in 2012
75% of the Voters in 2008 were white = roughly 45 Million Whites, would have voted for Obama; There are 245 Million whites in America.
47% of the White voters from 2008 who are considered working class (making less then 50k/year) voted for Barack Obama. Even with Working class whites more voted against Barack then For Him.
Barack Obama still only received 47% of White working Class vote - meaning majority of white in this class did not Vote for him
Barack Obama received 39% in 2008 & 43% in 2012 of the Total White Vote - meaning majority of total voting whites in this country did not vote for him.
Leaving 200 Million White Americans alone, who did not vote for Barack Obama - Not to mention another 50 Million from other Ethnicities who also did not vote for Barack.
With this Data, showing majority of voting whites, & majority of residential whites in America did not vote to elect Obama - How then can we use the election of Barack to prove Racism doesn't exist?
bill_coley — 2017-08-30T16:27:44-04:00 — #11
I don't have time to address all your questions, Tyrone, but the first one is a layup, so I'm taking a moment:
All the proof anyone should need of the existence of pernicious, society-harming racism in the United States is that at the root of Donald Trump's rise to political success was his six or seven year defacto leadership of the movement that claimed Barack Obama was not born in this country.
Trump's "birther" movement was vile, disgusting - in my view, disqualifying for the office he sought and won - and at its heart, deeply racist. Hence, it was racism that propelled him to national attention and attracted his initial core base of support.
Am I saying all Trump supporters are bigots and racists? No. But a poll at the end of 2016 - even after Trump from a teleprompter read a statement retracting his birther lie - more than 40% of Republicans expressed the belief that Obama was born in Kenya. That number wasn't that alarmingly, depressingly high because respondents had given thoughtful consideration to the available documentation. It was that high in large part due to people's responses to race.
Of course racism is real and powerful in our country, and not just at the fringes of our politics.
gao_lu — 2017-08-30T17:52:43-04:00 — #12
Racism is particularly insidious and occurs by degrees. My experience in dozens of countries and among all primary races and very many cultures is that probably no human on earth today is without racism. It will catch you when you least expect it.
I hear comments regularly from people 3-90 years old:
- "Look at that BIG nose! (all westerners are big noses)"
- "His skin is sickly white (actually I have a nice tan)"
- "He is a monkey! Look at the hair on his arms! Haha!"
- "Shhh! He can speak our language!"
- "Just get in front of them. They are foreigners and don't know what to do."
- "They aren't like us. They just don't know (the issue was whether or not there was one moon or two)"
- "He looks like Karl Marx (sadly, I do a little)"
And so on.
In most cases the appraisals aren't too far off.
If you are black, sit by a very white-skinned person. If you are white sit by a very black-skinned person. Or any other arrangement of color or culture. I have found that everyone, even the most seasoned anthropologist, even the mature Christian, feels something, probably fairly strongly. There is a sense of being right. A sense of pity for the other. A sense of arrogance that is almost impossible to be rid of. I say this with confidence because I work among people who are seasoned Christians of all the major skin colors who have spent most of their lives working among other cultures, and this is a recurring conversation. I have not yet met anyone who felt free of it.
If we are isolated from other cultures or seldom interact with them we can much more easily say we don't experience such feelings because we probably don't. We haven't had an opportunity.
On that basis I would say this:
- Racism feels like a strong word. I think most Americans push prejudice or hatred away and try to be free of it.
- None of us are completely free of unwanted feelings that sometimes surface unbidden.
- I would not say America is racist, but that all of America struggles with racism. Maybe there is a difference?
- There are groups of people who sometimes discriminate, hold prejudice and hang onto hatred for other races. I don't think that sentiment intentionally prevails in America. Maybe....
I have been in another country when political events turned the sentiment away from my country and my color. I didn't go outdoors for days till things simmered down. Even local people who were close and trusted began to be distrustful and uneasy around us. It happens so quickly. I don't think it would take much at all for the seeds of racism to spring up and we would all discover how much racism is in our hearts and in the hearts of Americans.
dave_l — 2017-08-30T19:36:09-04:00 — #13
Q: How many times was a president elected who did not win the popular vote?
A: It has happened four times.
The 2000 election was the most recent when the candidate who received the greatest number of electoral votes, and thus won the presidency, didn’t win the popular vote. But this scenario has played out in our nation’s history before.
In 1824, John Quincy Adams was elected president despite not winning either the popular vote or the electoral vote. Andrew Jackson was the winner in both categories. Jackson received 38,000 more popular votes than Adams, and beat him in the electoral vote 99 to 84. Despite his victories, Jackson didn’t reach the majority 131 votes needed in the Electoral College to be declared president. In fact, neither candidate did. The decision went to the House of Representatives, which voted Adams into the White House.
In 1876, Rutherford B. Hayes won the election (by a margin of one electoral vote), but he lost the popular vote by more than 250,000 ballots to Samuel J. Tilden.
In 1888, Benjamin Harrison received 233 electoral votes to Grover Cleveland’s 168, winning the presidency. But Harrison lost the popular vote by more than 90,000 votes.
In 2000, George W. Bush was declared the winner of the general election and became the 43rd president, but he didn’t win the popular vote either. Al Gore holds that distinction, garnering about 540,000 more votes than Bush. However, Bush won the electoral vote, 271 to 266.
= America is not racist.
bill_coley — 2017-08-30T19:48:46-04:00 — #14
Actually, Dave, "the most recent election when the candidate who received the greatest number of electoral votes, and thus won the presidency, didn’t win the popular vote" was in 2016, when Donald Trump won the electoral college, but lost the national popular vote by 3,000,000 votes. So the phenomenon you reference has happened five times, not four.
How do popular vote wins paired with electoral college losses shine any light whatsoever on the degree of racism in the nation?
dave_l — 2017-08-30T19:50:16-04:00 — #15
Either way, it takes a majority of popular or Electoral votes..............
bill_coley — 2017-08-30T20:02:27-04:00 — #16
And how does the fact that election victories require majorities shine any light whatsoever on the degree of racism in the nation?
dave_l — 2017-08-30T20:06:55-04:00 — #17
Mr. Obama would not have run in the first place if America is as bad as you make it out to be in the matter of race. The fact that he ran and won twice shows that the system works for anyone willing to work. If you are around racists individuals, I suggest you might change crowds.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T08:30:11-04:00 — #18
First, I never said racism doesn't exist, not even close. In fact, I said it most certainly DOES exist. What I said was that as a collective unit the United States is not a racist country. There is a big difference there.
Now, as far as your numbers, you need to do some revisions.
You said there are 323 million people in America. Yes, that is how many people there are TODAY. In 2008 there were approximately 304 million people.
Now, of those 304 million people in 2008, only 224.7 million were over 18, the legally required age to vote.
Out of the 224.7 million only 206 million were actual citizens and eligible to vote. Out of those 206 million eligible voters only 146.3 million were actually registered to vote. Out of those only 131 million people actually voted.
That being said, yes, Obama received 69 million votes. That is 47% of registered voters.
Now that we got some numbers out of the way we need to remember that not all African-Americans voted for Obama and not all White Americans voted for McCain. But the country as a whole elected Barack Obama. So I'm not really sure as to the point you were trying to make...
By the way my numbers all came from http://census.gov
bill_coley — 2017-08-31T09:40:27-04:00 — #19
In your view, Dave, what explains the lifespan and popularity of the "birther" movement? There was never ANY evidence to support the lie that Obama was born outside the U.S. yet 40%+ of Republicans believed it, and (I hope I remember this number correctly) more than 60% of Trump voters believed it. Was it sheer ignorance? Partisan blindness? If so, why hadn't that ignorance or blindness produced doubts of that scale about the American citizenship of any previous president?
dave_l — 2017-08-31T09:44:27-04:00 — #20
Just another fringe group. I do not know any birthers. Not one. There are no doubt many but these do not reflect the majority. Is your church racist?
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T09:59:45-04:00 — #21
Thank you. first I apologize if I misunderstood your statement about whether or Not America Was racist. I did not say you stated Racism didn't Exist, but that America could not be racist because Obama was elected.
Based on your numbers, of the registered white votes Obama received 43% of the White Vote. 95% African 66% Other.
How if the Majority of the voters, who are counted as the Majority of the Populous in America, DID NOT vote for Obama can we somehow conclude racism doesn't exist.
My main point is that the election system is in no way capable of diagnosing racism in America.
My secondary point is that if it were the sole opinion on racism in our country, then the opposite would prove to be true as 57% of the White Vote didn't go to Obama.
For now, my argument is not whether or not racism exist in America its whether the election of a Black President, who received the minority of white votes, can be used as an argument that our country isn't racist.
The equivalent would be to say America doesn't Like Basketball. A Poll was taken for the greatest sport Athlete in the world, and 53% of the Majority voted for Michael Jordan, 5% of the Minority voted for Michael Jordan. 47% of the Majority Voted for Brett Farve 66% of others voted for Bret Favre and 95% of the Minority voted for Brett Favre.
Brett Farve was elected as the greatest sport athlete - this does not mean America doesn't like Basketball. That wasn't even the poll question for one.
They have little to do with each other at all, and in fact it would be more factual to say that America likes Basketball More because the 53% of the Majority of the polled Population voted for a Basketball player, which if taken to be a reflection of the populous as a whole would provide an opposite opinion if everyone had been eligible to be polled, and if everyone casted their Ballot.. It just so happened that more minorities turned out to vote in this poll therefore giving Brett Farve the Lead - not because America doesn't like Basketball. So Many Variables come in to play like, whether the Basketball Player had Been Kobe Bryant would more of the Majority turned out to vote, and if the Football Player had been Tom Brady would less of the minority turned out to Vote. You cannot use the election, to backup a claim that racism doesn't exist in America and is not still an issue here on the homefront.
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