News & Current Events
dave_l — 2017-08-31T10:16:08-04:00 — #22
America represents people from every nation and ethnicity. Not just whites. So you might want to stop accusing Americans of every ethnic group as being racists, which most definitely are not. The fact that you pick out whites tells me you see your own faults in them and assume they think like you do. (judge not). I do not know any racists personally. I see them in the news every so often.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T10:25:36-04:00 — #23
I use the Majority of the Population for a reason, having nothing to do with faults in them, towards them. for non other Reason then they are the Majority.
Racism exist from the Top-down and from the Bottom-up.
I see as many racist blacks as I do Whites, and Asians, and Mexicans etc. You don't know what racial background I am, Don't assume because I align with African-American, frequently, that you know my ethnic Background or Reasons I feel & speak about the sufferings of a host of different Races. I've chosen to focus on Blacks because that is a prevalent issue currently in America -
I have been afforded the Privilege to speak liberally because of who I am, and I wont be silent.
**BTW There isn't a single member of my all-white blood - family who doesn't believe racism is still a problem in America.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T10:40:18-04:00 — #24
How are you getting these numbers?
That's not what we are concluding.... Why do you keep making this about whether or not racism actually exists?
I am white, I didn't vote for Obama, am I racist?
Our country by our very laws and regulations is not racist.... Sheesh.
If we were a racist country, a black man wouldn't even be eligible to be president.
Only because liberal politically correct idiots have made it so.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T10:52:50-04:00 — #25
No. Which is My whole Point. The election cannot be used to say America has, or doesn't Have Racism.
the Laws do not dictate the actions of the Majority. In fact it might be said for the Majority are without responsibility to the Law - and many cases would prove this, whether its the case in california last year of a young white kid committing an act of rape getting probation vs any black kid ever committing an act of rape & getting prison - because prison would be too hard on him and would harm him more then help him -
The laws do not protect from Ideologies, they only protect the outward expressing of them. they do not prevent discrimination because there are ways around that too. And With the America, currently, The President is making many racist groups take the hoods and mask off - removing them from hiding where the've been since the civil rights movement.
No because there is a real issue in this country, however minimal you choose to make it is a real way of life for others and it shouldn't be. Just because I am able to overcome the ceilings imposed by racism and discrimination doesn't mean i should act as if that ceiling doesn't exist when I see it far too often. On the contrary its a duty to speak up about it - And there's another discussion on how Christians ought to make a difference - which I will state pretty clear now, empower them with the Love of Jesus and the Power of the Holy Ghost and the sacrifice of the Cross.
Take that message into the disenfranchised, the poor, the down-trodden. You don't have to fix the system - let it remain broke its not too long before destruction will bring it down anyways. The people are the importance here - giving them Jesus will allow their mentality to shift, their future to brighten and then teach the next person. Reach one - Teach one.
This whole discussion came from the U.N ordering America to fix its problems at home with race relations, and a claim that there was no problem only a media exploitation of a fringe. Which I directly oppose. There is a problem at home with race, I used black vs white because I'll confront the system head-on. Whether its racist blacks or racist whites. Mexicans Asians, Jews or Gentiles. Jesus did not act as if the Jews didn't feel some type of way towards samaritans, and gentiles - in fact he addressed the problem head on. Then providing the Power of the gospel to the less fortunate actively demonstrated how to deal with this demon of hatred.
If there is even 1 hint of racism - it is too much.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T11:00:29-04:00 — #26
But that isn't the question.
The question we were discussing is this: "Is the United States a racist country?"
The question is not "Are there racists in the United States?"
You must not live in the South. Trust me, these groups have not been in hiding. The KKK hold regular gatherings in the South. Not that hard to find really...
No, I am not saying racism does not exist. What I AM saying is that politically correct liberal idiots blew up the issue and it has now boiled over because they made it into a bigger situation than what it was.
First, the UN has no business ordering the US to do ANYTHING. Quite frankly we should pull out of that ridiculous organization.
Second, it IS a media exploitation of a fringe. You do not see mass racism in this nation.
Agreed, but to blanket this issue is ridiculous.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T11:02:10-04:00 — #27
Unless you individually ask every American how they voted, you cannot get an actual percentage. It's just a guess. Educated guess, maybe, but still a guess. You realize that right?
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T11:10:27-04:00 — #28
I used the figures to make a simple point. The Election of a Black President as as much to do with Racism, as voting for a favorite sport using particular Sport Greats. They are distant cousins twice removed at best. You tackle racism for a country, by looking at the actions of the Justice System, the Education System, The Labor System, the Banking Systems and other entities like this. . .and then the actions of everyday people in smaller, less important entities. How do we treat one another based purely on the color of skin.
To not point a light at darkness is to hide it. Men loved darkness because their deeds were eveil, or else they would welcome the light to show their actions are the work of God.
Your first statement is a political stance, and One I really don't care about.
the Second is an opinion that I disagree with. The issue has always existed, you might say its a ploy of the Governments that they are just now focusing on it. But believe me it needs no exploitation. It is as bad as you see for alot of people - and that should touch your heart for the soul of man- instead of your pride for America.
Actually it was.
Its amazing we stopped with our Pride for America - the very last question proposed and refused to address the other issues presented.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T11:35:24-04:00 — #29
I never said hide it. I just am saying it is not the big national crisis you, politically correct liberals, and the media are making it out to be.
My first statement, that the UN has no business ordering the US to do anything, is most certainly not a political statement. It is a statement of fact and the sovereignty of the United States. The second half of that statement was definitely political yet true.
I have seen no evidence of mass racism in real-town America in the 21st Century.
dave_l — 2017-08-31T11:37:28-04:00 — #30
You overlook the fact that many vote one ticket regardless of who is running. Pointing out racism in others who do not point it out in themselves is judging by your own heart.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T12:01:23-04:00 — #31
I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservatist. I'm far from politically correct. I'm a believer, I'm Human, I'm Mixed. I live better then 80% of Americans financially and still - I believe Abortion is wrong. Gay Marriage is Wrong. I believe the Government is For the People and I believe the way to overcome Poverty is through Education not Hand Outs. I also believe racism is real, there are disenfranchised cultures in america who strictly because of how they look they are discriminated against. I believe my 73 year old Widow mother should get food stamps and government Aid after putting more then 50 years into the Texas Labor Force and shouldn't be living below the poverty line.
Racism is real whether you think it is or not. Be glad you are afforded the privilege to even say it doesn't exist. Many are not so lucky. For those to whom, and by it exist, It is a HUGE national Crisis because its happening in their very HOME.
That is redundant. What of the other Global Entities, sovereign yet required to submit to the powers of the United States let alone the U.N. With this logic, let Korean Peninsula develop their Nuclear weapons untill they launch one its nobodies business. We should never have interfered with Germany, they are sovereign, let them kill Jews our War was with Japan, we should have stuck them and bowed out. Don't use the sovereign rhetoric, The U.S respects nobody else's sovereigness and are not escapable to be help responsible for our own flaws.
Do you pay attention to the Justice System, the Education system (which has come a long way but still has a ways to go), the banking system or the Labor system? If you don't see evidence of Racism, massive and minimal depending on which area you decide to look at, then you have every right to have the opinion you have shared. I cannot argue with what you see. Thank you for sharing you views.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T12:06:04-04:00 — #32
This wasn't overlooked, this wasn't even relatible.
Others do point it out. frequently. As a matter a fact, I have not come across, but now two, white males, who say it doesn't exist in this country on a level that needs to be addressed. I interact with many of all creeds and colors, traveling OFTEN across America. You two are the first. It was in fact my family who helped me to see it was an issue worth fighting for, and one my family has fought for - since coming to America. Being Immigrants themselves, but being accounted for the majority due to skin color was absurd to them. When people of color, had long preceded them in citizenship yet had far fewer basic human rights. However what you see, is what you get and I am grateful for this discourse. thank you for sharing your views..
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T12:25:45-04:00 — #33
I didn't say you were.
Ok, you lump two totally separate things together here. Are you saying your mother doesn't get aid because of race?
Once again, I never said taht.
That would make it a personal and local crisis, not national.
Accept they are making specific threats to other nations that we have alliances with. That's different.
dave_l — 2017-08-31T13:29:33-04:00 — #34
It relates if a segmen votes one ticket regardlessly.
We are not talking about overt racists. We are talking about you accusing people of racism based on their skin color. And this makes you a racist.
bill_coley — 2017-08-31T14:22:42-04:00 — #35
In your view, Dave, are there only two size/impact options: "fringe" and "majority"? I know what a "majority" is. When does a group become something larger than a "fringe"?
In your view, were the 40% of the Republicans polled at the end of 2016 who said they believed Barack Obama was born in Kenya a "fringe" group within the Party? I know they weren't a majority (though they could have been a plurality!) but were they something more significant than a "fringe" group?
And your response does not address the question I asked: In your view, what explains the lifespan and popularity - whether among a "fringe" or something more significant than that - of the "birther" movement? Under Donald Trump's leadership, the "birther" movement persisted for five years or more. Why?
And by the way, how is your assessment of Donald Trump affected by the fact that he was a leader of what you call the "fringe" group called the "birther" movement? What does his leadership of that particular "fringe" group tell you about the man's character?
dave_l — 2017-08-31T14:32:21-04:00 — #36
fringe group (plural fringe groups) A set phrase to dissociate a mainstream organization (usually religious) from outcast radical members.
What I am saying is; unless people identify themselves as racists, one accusing them as being racist based on skin color is truly a racist. Which is the case here. You are accusing a group of the sin of racism based on their skin color and nothing else. People vote different ways for different reasons.
bill_coley — 2017-08-31T14:44:36-04:00 — #37
I didn't ask you for a definition of the term "fringe group," Dave. I asked whether there are size/impact options for groups other than the two you referenced in a previous post, "fringe" and "majority." Can a faction within a population be larger/more impactful than a "fringe" group, but not large enough to the "majority"?
I didn't ask you to define the circumstances under which you would accept as legitimate accusations of racism, or why people vote the way they do. I asked whether you believe the 40% of Republicans who told pollsters - i.e. in an opinion poll, NOT an election vote - Barack Obama wasn't born in the U.S. were a "fringe" group within the Party.
I also asked why you believe the "birther" movement persisted for so many years under Donald Trump's leadership, and how your assessment of Mr. Trump was affected by the fact that he was a leader of that movement. Since you chose not to address either of those questions, I ask them again.
david_taylor_jr — 2017-08-31T14:57:45-04:00 — #38
Because that is a reasonable statistic to go on.... good grief.. who did the poll? Where did they get their sample? What were the questions?
bill_coley — 2017-08-31T15:36:14-04:00 — #39
The poll was a joint venture of The Economist and YouGov.com.
Because I don't want to get lost on the "Sea of Statistical Precision," I will step back from any particular poll number to make the larger point: A sub-group or movement doesn't have to hold the majority view in order to have a consequential impact in the identity.
Racism, in my view, is bigotry with power. Archie Bunker was a bigot; but he didn't have any power, so I don't consider him to be a racist. Only people with the power/influence to affect others' lives can be "racist." But one outcome of my point of view is that the degree of a community's/state's/nation's racism is defined NOT by its census of bigots, but rather by its count of bigots in positions of power and authority.
Donald Trump's bigotry has been well documented over the last 40+ years. Now that he possesses the power and authority of the president of the United States, I consider him to be a racist.
People in government have power. People in HR offices have power. People on company boards of directors have power. Want to assess our society's problem with racism? Start in those places, not at corner cafes.
If you seriously believe there was EVER a scintilla of "reasonable doubt" about Barack Obama's birthplace, then our exchange on the subject will end here. The birther movement pursued one of most despicable, contemptible, and venal lies ever perpetrated in American politics. There was literally NOTHING "reasonable" about that doubt.
Remember Donald Trump's telling "The Today Show that he "absolutely" had sent investigators to Hawaii? "I have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what they're finding," he said. That was an abject lie, a total fabrication... which his supporters and others took to be "reasonable doubt" as to the location of Mr. Obama's birth.
I'll stop now, before I get serious.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T15:46:32-04:00 — #40
Now you sound just Like the leader of the Free World, Trump -
How can Those who stand up to racism be equally racist?
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-31T15:50:12-04:00 — #41
Right. Many races carry racist ideologies but they don't have the power to be racist. So we focus on those with the power and ask for change.
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