dave_l — 2017-10-20T05:39:15-04:00 — #1
The Spirit of Antichrist
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Any Jew or Roman who knew of Jesus back in the day would be able to say he walked around as a man claiming to be God. But unless God had given them special revelation, they could not say Jesus was YHWH walking around in a man’s body. Paul says “... no one can say, “Jesus is the Lord [Greek kurios YHWH in the LXX),” except by the Holy Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:3)
So when John says any who say Jesus did not come in the flesh has the spirit of Antichrist, he speaks of any who do not believe Jesus is YHWH. He obviously does not speak of Jews or Romans who knew of him. He speaks of any person or group who does not believe Jesus was God in the flesh.
This would include Jehovah’s Witnesses, Unitarians, and any others who renounce Christ’s deity. It would also include Oneness Pentecostals who say the Father came in the flesh and called himself the Son. But there is no person of the Son. This would include all non trinitarians as having the spirit of Antichrist.
Catholics also deny that Jesus came in the flesh through their doctrine of Immaculate Conception. Which raises Mary above mortals, making Jesus’ body something other than human flesh. So they say Jesus came in the likeness Mary’s sinless flesh, and not in the likeness of our sinful flesh.
Any thoughts or comments welcome....
gao_lu — 2017-10-20T06:30:38-04:00 — #2
You have a lot of interpretation going on there. No doubt you think anyone who doesn't agree with you isn't saved and therefore cannot see it your way. Nevertheless, I would stick with Biblical terminology and wording rather than a strong, accusative interpretational approach. I have a friend who is JW. Sweet gal. Sincere, I think. Truly shows years of abundant fruit of the Spirit even if her theology is askew. She probably couldn't define the word "theology." I think she is God's chosen daughter.
dave_l — 2017-10-20T06:34:57-04:00 — #3
Put up some scripture refuting my claims. Opinions are opinions and nothing more.
gao_lu — 2017-10-20T07:26:13-04:00 — #4
dave_l — 2017-10-20T07:36:46-04:00 — #5
Did you consider the scriptures I posted? These are not opinions. If Jesus is God, and these (people you defend) deny that he is, how can they not be possessed by the spirit of Antichrist?
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-20T07:59:39-04:00 — #6
When reading and considering the scriptures you posted, it is obvious that they do not state nor prove your claim about "Jesus is God" and those who do not believe that 4th century AD council dogma.
dave_l — 2017-10-20T08:04:54-04:00 — #7
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulder: And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
“For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.” (Luke 2:11)
“Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: The virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (Or God with us..)” (Isaiah 7:14)
“The LORD is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise Him; my father’s God, and I will exalt Him.” (Exodus 15:2)
““And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; for you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,” (Luke 1:76)
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created. In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. The light shines in darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:1–5)
“The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, the glory as the only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”” (John 1:14–15)
“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”” (John 8:24)
“Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”” (John 8:58)
“Thomas answered Him, “My Lord and my God!”” (John 20:28)
“Therefore take heed to yourselves and to the entire flock, over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.” (Acts 20:28)
“to whom belong the patriarchs, and from whom, according to the flesh, is Christ, who is over all, God forever blessed. Amen.” (Romans 9:5)
“For in Him lives all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)
“to keep this commandment without blemish, blameless until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He, who is the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, will reveal at the proper time. He alone has immortality, living in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen, nor can see. To Him be honor and everlasting power. Amen.” (1 Timothy 6:14–16)
“as we await the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,” (Titus 2:13)
“has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the world. He is the brightness of His glory, the express image of Himself, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had by Himself purged our sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (Hebrews 1:2–3)
“ But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, lasts forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” (Hebrews 1:8)
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-20T08:45:03-04:00 — #8
Yet another list of scripture verses thrown in the pot ... just one problem: NONE of these scriptures show any Jesus is God idea as you think they do ...
As I mentioned earlier: Those who can and do read, most definitely have an advantage ...
dave_l — 2017-10-20T09:56:49-04:00 — #9
All of the scriptures I posed reveal Jesus as God. This is why those who reject Jesus as God in person, cannot say he came in the flesh, which he was foretold to do. Thereby fulfilling John's description of those possessed with the spirit of Antichrist.
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-20T11:08:32-04:00 — #10
Not even one of those scriptures does what you claim.
This is a false assumption
This is a false conclusion based on the above false assumptions
dave_l — 2017-10-20T11:26:51-04:00 — #11
Prove they do not state Jesus is God.
The Jews and Romans who killed Jesus would agree with you that Jesus was a man. And they would also agree with you that he was not God.
Who might be possessed with the Spirit of Antichrist if not for those who deny Jesus as YHWH came in the flesh. The Jews and Romans, and you say he was a man and not God. It isn't the Apostles or NT writers that say this.
gao_lu — 2017-10-20T12:18:28-04:00 — #12
The Scriptures are great. I love them. Your opinions about them are exactly like you said: "Opinions are opinions and nothing more." We agree on every count that I addressed here.
I do not know the either how or that they are. You have pretty much everyone alive being possessed by the spirit of Antichrist. Perhaps you are better equipped to explain the "how."
dave_l — 2017-10-20T14:11:43-04:00 — #13
How much of Christendom is Trinitarian? The vast majority. How many think like the non-trinitarians and those who deny Christ's deity represented as a majority on this board? Not too many. Why not stick up for the truth rather than camouflage and stifle it?
gao_lu — 2017-10-20T19:39:32-04:00 — #14
Probably more than 95%
1.I don't know. Some of those terms might bear defining a bit more clearly.
2. Bill and Wolfgang, I think would deny Christ's deity.
I am happy to defend Truth--that is the Truth we find in Scripture. The Davidian opinions about truth I am not inclined to defend because I find them fraught with error. My opinions are probably as bad or worse. I don't expect you to defend my opinions, although that would be right kind of you to do so. I would be deeply grateful for you to camouflage and stifle my errors. Christians Brothers ought to do so.
I am so thankful we have the Word of God, which we can trust.
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-10-21T03:06:16-04:00 — #15
Actually, I think that depends very much on what is meant with "Christ's DEITY" .... what do you mean, when speak of Christ's DEITY? Do you mean that he himself is a Deity, a God? Do you mean that there are certain Divine characteristics associated with the human being Jesus of Nazareth? Do you mean that being "the Son of God" equals "Deity"? Do you mean something else altogether when you speak of Christ's Deity? ...
See, I definitely believe that the Messiah, Christ, is a human being, as John expresses by his statement "has come in the flesh". So why am I said to be of the spirit of Antichrist here? Would not actually be those who claim that Messiah, Christ, is MORE THAN a human being (for example, a God-man or man-God) be those to whom that statement from 1Jo applies?
dave_l — 2017-10-21T06:36:27-04:00 — #16
As I've said before, I do not post as dogma anything not held in common historically throughout Christendom. When I do post opinions or ideas, I always clarify it. Occasionally I will challenge the denominational creeds using scripture based on years of study.
dave_l — 2017-10-21T06:42:44-04:00 — #17
The Jews and Romans who crucified Jesus believed exactly as you do. Jesus was a man, not God. “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age knew it. For had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” (1 Corinthians 2:7–8)
So, the OT foretold God being manifest in the flesh. And John says that any who deny this version of Jesus (God) are of the spirit of antichrist. He's not speaking of even the most base among men who would say a man named Jesus did not live some two thousand years ago.
gao_lu — 2017-10-21T07:22:04-04:00 — #18
You have said that. You say lots of things. Often. The concern is those places where you do post dogma not held in common historically throughout Christendom or the Bible or both. That has been pointed out many times. You may not agree, and that is your prerogative. I am not your mother.
dave_l — 2017-10-21T07:26:15-04:00 — #19
I have categorized my method of presenting what I believe. And you are twisting it to your liking.
gao_lu — 2017-10-21T07:27:40-04:00 — #20
I believe you believe it. You have said so many, many times.
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