will_scholten — 2016-05-30T21:55:51-04:00 — #1
A few years ago, I heard a speaker teach on Yahushua was crucified on an Almond tree and not a cross, I stumbled on this today, and reminded me of that.
Also I read the book of Adam and Eve about 8 years ago and it brings up that Adam took a branch from the tree of life. Is that the same branch Aaron had that budded? I think it is very possible!
What do you think?
will_scholten — 2016-05-31T20:50:43-04:00 — #2
More references here;
Does anyone have any scripture references as to why nuns where a cross or "t" around there neck?
It sounds like to me, that Constantine did a lot of things to the way the NT assembly worshipped
charles_mcneil — 2016-06-07T02:43:14-04:00 — #3
Is this in the canon of Scriptures?
will_scholten — 2016-06-07T06:08:34-04:00 — #4
No, I'll dbl check , it mght be in the dead sea scrolls.
justin_gatlin — 2016-06-07T13:07:58-04:00 — #5
How would Jesus have carried his own almond tree?
charles_mcneil — 2016-06-07T14:07:33-04:00 — #6
"Was Yahushua crucified on a tree or a cross?"
Does it make a difference? What is a wooden cross made from? Where does wood come from? CM
will_scholten — 2016-06-07T16:53:49-04:00 — #7
The wood is not the problem, it is the "t" that would be the problem. "If" the "t" is the mark of tammuz, why do we want "t"'s in our churches.
That is my concern.
will_scholten — 2016-06-07T19:18:09-04:00 — #8
It is not in ours, but the "council of Laodicia" banned it.(I have not checked the DSS yet)
lu1 — 2016-06-08T01:22:31-04:00 — #9
Why is this important? Just curious.
charles_mcneil — 2016-06-08T03:31:13-04:00 — #10
If you are looking for truth, focus on the originals and the proven that's known. The Canon is closed. Study what we have. Why spend time nibbling around the rejected or the uninspired? I know the old saying, "One man's garbage is another man's treasure." However, What is God's garbage is man's garbage. There is no eternal value in "Books banned by the Council of Laodicea." Oh, yes, you can learn some things, but let's focus on eternal things, Jesus, The Christ and Him crucified.
There is too much truth to be mined from the revealed Word (Bible). Holy men wrote as they were moved (God breathed) by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is a Divine/human product. To understand it, requires prayer, study, patience, humility, faith and heavenly illumination. Let's share the Word of God. Peace! CM
charles_mcneil — 2016-06-08T03:48:31-04:00 — #11
Live from FAITH and not out of fear. Is it easier to not have crosses in the churches, if that's a concern. The Mark of Tammuz:
`Tammuz, the second member of the pagan Babylonian Trinity, the incarnation of God in the flesh, is the false messiah of the religion created by Semiramis (the Whore mentioned in Revelation). YHVH has commanded us (His people) to “come out of her” and cease prostituting out the worship of the ONE true God to others. The symbol of “the son of The LORD god Baal” in the pagan religion of Babylon was a cross. It is called The Cross of Tammuz. This cross was worn on the head dresses of the Babylonians and breastplates of priests and warriors alike in honor of Tammuz. The cross was a representation of “T” in Tammuz and his symbol “x”.
Christ in the heart is what matters. A cross in the church or around the neck is there any salvation in it? Is there any significance to having a cross symbol? Is not God is our protector and assurance. Hey, no cross and further more, no fear of displaying the mark of Tammuz. Be at peace. CM
will_scholten — 2016-06-08T06:07:52-04:00 — #12
What else did the council of Laodicea do?
"Satan managed to deceive well intentioned men to ignore the most important day of all. The day of having God dwell in the hearts of men! The true meaning of the Sabbath! If you read The Epistle of Barnabus, Chapter 13, you will see why in light of the 29th Canon they had to ban the text from the New Testament. There are sources today that quote the Epistle of Barnabus to justify going to Church on Sunday, but they completely miss the fact the text explains why one shouldn't trust going to a building made of hands as part of Sabbath worship. That is not how to obey God and keep the Sabbath. (Lev 23:3, Sabbath is to be kept in one's dwelling) The Church Fathers couldn't ban Sabbath keeping and then allow a text to become canon that admonishes Christians on the proper way to keep the Sabbath!""
CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
IT is not lawful to receive portions sent from the feasts of Jews or heretics, nor to feast together with them.
IT is not lawful to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety.
Why don't we keep the Sabbath and the Feast?
will_scholten — 2016-06-08T20:05:20-04:00 — #13
Hi CM, sorry to bring this phrase up again, but today when I was at work, it hit me like a brick.
Please see what you think; please bare with me.
Where do the scriptures tell us Paul and Barnabas went when they had an issue?
Acts 15 says they went to Jerusalem, they had the Jerusalem council.
What does Revelation 3 14-22 tell us about Laodicea?
So why did the church have the "Council of Laodicea"? Where did that authority come from? Rome?
Did Rome follow YHWH"S Commandments and Torah?
At this council they dropped the Sabbath, YHWH"S Feast(THEY ARE NOT THE JEWS SABBATH AND FEAST), banned books.
Did Romans go around to the Jews to try to get them to reject there beliefs,at the threat of death?
Did this council push it even more?
The traditons I was brought up in ignored all this, I never even thought about it till this afternoon.
Does that seem right to you guys?
gao_lu — 2016-06-09T07:45:29-04:00 — #14
To be clear, I think you have missed the bullseye, the entire target, the full broad side of the barn and have turned away to something else. Just sayin'.
Furthermore, going down the path of "T's, Tammuz and crosses in churches is to give far too much power to iconography of the heart, which is tantamount to idolatry, if not the real thing.
Start by sticking with the Bible. Focus on Jesus Christ.
will_scholten — 2016-06-09T20:38:58-04:00 — #15
I wish I could agree with this statement, but there is to much evidence that doesn't fit together.
Deut. 13 tells us
29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.”
**31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.**
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 12:29–32). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
We took away the days YHWH gave us, and keep the days man gave us( days that were never kept by his covenant people).
No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
The New International Version. (2011). (Ga 1:6–10). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
What is Paul referring to?
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever.
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 28:45–46). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
Deut. 28 is what Paul was speaking of in Gal., it never changed
Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:
16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. 21 The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The LORD will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
36 The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the LORD will drive you.
38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.
43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
The New International Version. (2011). (Dt 28:15–48). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
**2 Blessed is the one who does this—
the person who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,
and keeps their hands from doing any evil.”
3 Let no foreigner who is bound to the LORD say,
“The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.”
And let no eunuch complain,
“I am only a dry tree.”
4 For this is what the LORD says:
“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD
to minister to him,
to love the name of the LORD,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.**
The New International Version. (2011). (Is 56:2–7). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.
The New International Version. (2011). (Ac 21:20–26). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
"thousands" is a "countless number"; see below!!
So what happened to this countless number of Jews who were believers and zealous for the law?
Are these the Romans captured and to them to reject their beliefs or die??
Where did this countless number go?
the scriptures never say the Sabbaths and feast are done away with, so why did we do away with them? traditions of man!
will_scholten — 2017-07-08T19:36:55-04:00 — #16
This guy has lots of proof the cross was used by pagans, way before Yahusha was crucified!
Can any of you prove him wrong?
If not, the "church" has a huge problem, doesn't it!!
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-08T22:29:24-04:00 — #17
As long as you don't worship the cross, but the crucified Christ, you are fine. That is the key.
Many pagan symbols, idols, days, have worked their way into the church in a (failed) attempt to remove the power from the body of Christ and add to the deceit and gross blindness that plagues the lands...
However, the heart is judged. I do think you find interesting research points worth deeper looks individually but on the whole it's a burden most aren't willing to endure, to research past available information to both the deeper things of God and the great deception on Man. Be blessed.
bill_coley — 2017-07-09T02:18:02-04:00 — #19
I posted the reply above - which I immediately deleted - because I discovered that it relied on a verse in Galatians whose translation to which I referred included both the words "cross" and "tree," however, the word "cross" appears in that verse in only in one translation, a fact that raised doubts about the validity of the inclusion of the word. Hence, the deletion of the post.
will_scholten — 2017-07-09T07:44:14-04:00 — #20
So do you think that is ok with YHWH? Did He not tell His Chosen People" not to worship Him the way the nations worship their gods" " I am a jealous Elohim!"
Rome has done some bad bad things!
Constantine the Great, was great, because he blended things. Everything is ok,then they made a law, only the clergy could have scriptures, anyone else would be burned at the stake, they had complete control of religion what has the church kept out of this? Many pagan traditions, if we do these pagan things, who are we worshiping?
Yes, you are 100% correct!!
Yahusha said" you worship me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me"
If our hearts are in the right place, we would be listening to Him, instead of man, right!
Scriptures tell us " anyone who says he loves me, but does not do as I (YHWH) command, is a liar"!
It is time to repent from what we have been taught and return to do HIs Will, follow His instructions for a set apart life!!
tyrone_howard — 2017-07-10T10:26:56-04:00 — #21
Hopefully believers don't. Having a cross inside of a Church or not having one doesn't change how one worships. I like tent services and outside church services under the firmament and street services in the hedges and highways more then I like inside church services myself.
I would advise not to do them. I don't celebrate easter, Christmas etc I don't have a cross hanging around my neck as idolatry. there is a cross in my church not so that It can be worshipped but so Who hung on the cross can be. whether or not the wood was shaped as a lower case T or not is irrelevant with worship because you don't worship the T, the Tree, the cross or anything made from wood or by Hands but Jesus Christ of Nazareth is to be worshipped.
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