bkmitchell — 2017-01-02T01:57:11-05:00 — #1
Long ago men and women called fundamentalist formulated five principles they regarded as the non-negotiables of faith:
- The inspiration of Scripture
- the miraculous conception
- atonement for sin through Jesus
- the resurrection of Jesus
- the miracles of Jesus
According to Scripture what do you or what does you fellowship regard as being the non-negotiables of faith and Christian practice?
dave_l — 2017-01-02T08:08:16-05:00 — #2
Holiness. That is, conformity to the Two Great Commandments. The love for God and people. If a person has the Holy Spirit, God will guide them into truth and truthful fellowship. But I've been in and around "fundamentalists" who rightfully think holiness is not a means for salvation. But they do not understand that holiness is evidence of the new nature resulting from salvation.
bkmitchell — 2017-01-12T09:42:46-05:00 — #3
I was curious what people on these forums consider to be the non-negotiables of faith or of being a Christian. In other words what must a Christian believe in your opinion?
dave_l — 2017-01-12T09:51:13-05:00 — #4
I do not think God requires anything from us in salvation. He simply regenerates our hearts giving us the capacity to recognize truth when we hear it. Also making us hyper sensitive to the Two Great Commandments written in our's and every person's heart. The Born Again walk according to it and in time come to hold certain truths. Those not Born Again remain bound by sin according to the Law and it severs to increase their punishment.
bkmitchell — 2017-01-12T10:01:30-05:00 — #5
In other words, it does not matter what one believes about complicated doctrines like the 'trinity', women's role/place in the church, the nature of Jesus, the covenants, Israel&The Church, and most of the other issues we/those on these forums argue over?
dave_l — 2017-01-12T10:07:10-05:00 — #6
Not at all. There is nothing you can think, say, or do to be saved. Salvation is by grace. But if you are saved, you will hear and embrace the truth. That is you will believe Jesus is the Christ and the Gospel. Plus many other truths. But just look at the contradiction between believers in all that they believe about the Gospel and other doctrines. It is a good thing salvation does not need our measuring up to make it work.
bill_coley — 2017-01-12T13:50:00-05:00 — #7
As a product of the Restoration Movement, we Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) people are wary of the need for specific community theological conclusions or creedal statements writ large. We tend to coalesce around the slogan "No book but the Bible; no creed but Christ," which in practical terms permits considerable latitude to those on the faith journey.
In my personal view, I think an inspired Scripture is necessary, but not without presenting the caveat that followers of Jesus will come to different conclusions as to the meaning and consequences of inspiration. For me, as I have stated in numerous CD posts, "inspired" means "God-breathed," but does not mean inerrant. I respect that other Jesus followers adopt a different meaning for the word.
A miraculous conception is accepted by many in my fellowship, and of course, across the universal Church. It plays no role in my faith, however, primarily because I don't believe it happened.
Atonement for sin through Jesus is a declaration most all DOC people, including me, would affirm. Differences of opinion would arise, however, as we (and other Christians, as well) each described the process by which we believe said atonement takes place.
The resurrection of Jesus is in my view - a view likely shared by most all DOC people - the signal event in the New Testament, the event without which there is no Church. So, yes, I/we consider it a non-negotiable.
In my view, the miracles of Jesus point away away from Jesus and toward the God who called him. The miracles serve as identification certification, that Jesus is indeed one sent from God.
I think the only non-negotiables for the Christian faith are that there is one God and that one God raised one called Jesus to new life and crowned him (the resurrected Jesus) Lord and Savior. What each of the loaded terms in that declaration means, however, is often negotiable.
bkmitchell — 2017-01-12T18:37:06-05:00 — #8
I would like to thank you both Dave L and Bill Coley for eloquently and articulately responding to this thread with posts, I believe, show a true spirit of Christianity love. If, more Christians took the positions expressed in both of your post I believe there would be a lot less division in the body of Christ.
Grace and Peace,
gao_lu — 2017-01-12T20:54:21-05:00 — #9
Sine qua non of faith:
- Free will
- Something/Somone in which to have faith
Not to nitpick but I am hesitant because I think sine qua non may apply at different levels:
- Church congregations
For example: Before Jesus, the resurrection and works of Jesus were not applicable, at least not consciously in their faith. In my work with nascent Believers, expectations of what is sine qua non are a quite different from what is expected of trained theologians. I would not forbid a new Muslim male convert with 3 wives from confidence in saving faith, while I would lack enthusiasm for offering the same support to local Baptist pastor with an MDiv from Dallas Theological Seminary with multiple wives.
My stand would be to hold the Word of God out as sine qua non, teach it literally, while realizing that salvation is by grace, and God knows the heart. I am concerned that if I define sine qua non of faith/salvation, I will just be creating a new sort of Mosaic Law. My heart is to call people to understanding and obedience, not to judge them by sine qua non.
hamilton_ramos — 2017-01-23T23:40:43-05:00 — #10
Excellent thread BK:
The Bible is important, problem is that only the inspired parts are inerrant, binding, truth carrying etc.
I have discussed before that Matthew 28:19 baptismal formula, is considered by external and internal evidence spurious, thus non binding.
10 days after the supposed Mt 28:19 command was given, Peter not only did not obey it, but none of the other Apostles raised objection about the formula given by Peter:
And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The wording of Mt 28:19 is of a liturgical type, and not in the style Jesus would use.
Also no one was ever baptized as per Mt 28:19 in the Bible, all as per Acts 2:38.
So if you want to be in NT covenantal compliance, you must be baptized as per Acts 2:38, note that repentance also is required.
Miraculous conception is important to know that Jesus is a Substantive Reality from God. (image of the invisible God that was allowed to have life in Himself).
But in order to have the Holy Spirit descend and remain in Jesus John 1:32, He must have been of a pre fall nature, so by inference, the whole zygote had to be placed in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit.
Atonement for sin through Jesus is very important, because that is what actually settled our debt aright with God.
Resurrection of Jesus is key, because otherwise our faith would be vain. By showing He is the master of life, then we can be sure that He will grant us life.
Now to me the absolute non-negotiable is:
Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Whoever does not have this clear, cannot be a real Christian with true faith.
Miracles of Jesus are important for non-believers. I believed in miracles before I saw many at church, and I was not surprised when I saw them, because I understand that God is "naturally supernatural", and where He shows up, supernatural things happen, because that is His nature.
The Holy Spirit indwelling the believer is also very important as is a part of covenantal compliance.
Hope this is helpful to you BK.
Peace and grace.
will_scholten — 2017-02-09T21:03:07-05:00 — #11
I made this flyer, to hand out at different churches last Sunday morning. I had to delete some of the verses to make it fit on one piece of paper, also the font was in different colors to. I made it to 7 churches last week, talked to 3 people , then the other 4, just put it in the door.
I would call these non-negotiables!
Mark 7:8 **You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!**
Why is the "church's 3 biggest days, not kept in the scripture? Christmas, Easter and the Day of the Sun.
3 Do not eat any detestable thing. 4 These are the animals you may eat: ...have a divided hoof you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the hyrax. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a divided hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. 8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales. 10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.
Lev 1824 “ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways.... 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 ....
29 “ ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’ ”
**Proverbs 28:9 If a person will not listen to Torah,
even his prayer is an abomination.**
Hebrews 19:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.” n So can the law/Torah be done away with if it is going to be in our minds and hearts?
http://youtu.be/d0-P1ecBSos ( Please go to my youtube videos for more information)
or go to youtube and search "Bible Study Challenge, Name That Verse"
( Triumphant Entry, Sunday replaces Sabbath, and Times and Law/Torah changed by Messiah)