bkmitchell — 2017-08-10T10:17:58-04:00 — #1
In your own words, what does Matthew 16:28 mean?
I assure you and most solemnly say to you, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. The Amplified Bible (Matthew 16:28)
dave_l — 2017-08-10T10:43:19-04:00 — #2
According to Peter, Christ's resurrection placed him on David's Throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.
Peter said of David; But being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of his seed according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he foresaw this and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. Acts 2:30–31
But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is our mother. Galatians 4:26
Most look for a Jewish flavored Millennium in the future, but it is already here. Invisible to the naked eye, it is purely spiritual and will remain until the last day, when Jesus destroys the last enemy death.
For He will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:25–26 (MEV)
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-10T10:57:37-04:00 — #3
Dave L - are you afraid of Death?
dave_l — 2017-08-10T11:22:38-04:00 — #4
What is your point? Paul is speaking about the resurrection on the last day.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-10T11:26:54-04:00 — #5
I'm not talking about Paul or Last Day Resurrection, I'm asking you are you afraid of Death.
I'm also not even giving my insight on Matthew 16:28 i think it was pretty clear, Judas was there also, which is why he said Some, because not all would see Jesus come in his Kingdom after he was resurrected. I also believe its a verse for those in the last day, there will be some who will be in a congregation where this is read/ preached who will not see death before they see the second coming of Christ.
I was asking you about your view/fear of death for another reason. It seemed when you stated in your response regarding the last enemy death, that there was a hint of a tone, that death is still an enemy to be feared, or an enemy at all.
dave_l — 2017-08-10T11:30:36-04:00 — #6
But Jesus said some "standing here" will not die until they see him coming in his kingdom. This happened at His resurrection and on Pentecost Sunday.
Paul calls death an enemy. God says those who hate him love death.
wolfgang_schneider — 2017-08-10T11:35:16-04:00 — #7
I would say that it means straight forward what it states ... some (not all, not even the majority) who heard Jesus speak at the time did in fact see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom before they died. The coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom happened as prophesied by Jesus, for some more specific events directly related to his coming, I would suggest to take note of Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21.
bill_coley — 2017-08-10T13:34:32-04:00 — #8
I think the verse means...
- That as of the time he spoke the words, Jesus didn't believe the Son of Man had come into his kingdom yet, that the Son of Man's kingdom arrival was an event/outcome still to come
- That contemporaneous with the Son of Man's kingdom arrival would be a season of judgment and accountability for all persons (see the previous verse, Matthew 16.27)
- That Jesus believed the Son of Man's kingdom arrival and its concomitant accountability period would take place during the remaining earthly life of one or more of the persons who heard him make the prediction.
- That Jesus was mistaken about the timing of the Son of Man's kingdom arrival, since, in my view, that arrival has not yet occurred, meaning all of those who heard his prediction tasted death before that event.
dave_l — 2017-08-10T14:22:59-04:00 — #9
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (MEV)
The Kingdom is a major part of the Christian world view. And it is the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus and the Apostles preached. Many look for a physical kingdom but since one must be born again to see it, it certainly is not the one everyone is presently looking for. It has been here since Pentecost 33AD.
bill_coley — 2017-08-10T14:43:52-04:00 — #10
If the Son of Man's kingdom arrival happened in A.D. 33, what Son of Man arrival do you believe Jesus has in mind in Matthew 24.29-31? If the arrival of the Son of Man into his kingdom in Matthew 16 occurred in A.D.33, to what arrival of the Son of Man Jesus refer in Matthew 24? And has the Matthew 24 arrival of the Son of Man also already occurred?
dave_l — 2017-08-10T14:54:31-04:00 — #11
The kingdom is here but only the born again can see it. Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 So it is not a physical kingdom that just anyone can see. But a physical kingdom is what most look for.
When He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation. Luke 17:20 (MEV)
Nor will they say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For remember, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21 (MEV) And this through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
Jesus also came in clouds of judgement in 70 AD against Israel, and Jerusalem in particular, using the Romans. And he presently rules the nations with a rod of iron from Heavenly Jerusalem above. He will also return on the last day and the heavens and earth will pass away with a fervent heat and a great noise, according to Peter.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-10T14:55:07-04:00 — #12
Where are these Scriptures?
right. All people don't sit down at the reading of Gods Word. so some of those who will hear this in the last days will not perish before seeing the second coming of Christ
dave_l — 2017-08-10T15:05:55-04:00 — #13
For since death came by man, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward, those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end when He will deliver up the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He will reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:21–26 (MEV)
but he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; all those who hate me love death.” Proverbs 8:36 (MEV)
Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Matthew 16:28 (MEV)
Here = Greek 83.1 ὧδεa; ἐνθάδε: a position relatively near the speaker, writer, or viewpoint person—‘here.’
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 711). New York: United Bible Societies.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-10T15:54:27-04:00 — #14
What about when God says that precious in his eyes are the deaths of his saints.
Maybe The proverb was talking about those enjoying being dead in their sins?
You don't think this has happened?
I don't disagree that he was speaking to those near him, but I don't rule out him speaking of Future events also.
justin_gatlin — 2017-08-10T17:04:50-04:00 — #15
Jesus came in His Kingdom at His ascension; He did not come down to reign (yet future) but "came unto the Ancient of Days" and received His Kingdom. Daniel 7:13-14 is the key passage. Jesus gave the Limited Commission when He was on Earth as the Messiah of Israel, and the Great Commission on His ascension, as He took on His eternal Kingdom.
In the context of Daniel, it is described after the fall of the beast, but it is normal in the Old Testament to telescope the two comings, and verse 13 begins with a transition phrase to introduce it as a new vision. There is no need for it to be chronological, and Jesus coming in His Kingdom to the Father makes sense of both Daniel and Matthew, with His coming in His Kingdom to Earth yet to come.
dave_l — 2017-08-10T18:43:07-04:00 — #16
Why try to make it say something it does not?
No. What I said is Jesus presently reigns on David's Throne in heavenly Jerusalem above, until he destroys the last enemy death, at the resurrection on the last day. And as Paul says, he then delivers the kingdom up to God.
He was speaking of the immediate future. Some of those in his presence, as he spoke, saw the Kingdom arrive. In Jesus' resurrection and a few days later at Pentecost.
dave_l — 2017-08-10T18:50:42-04:00 — #17
Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. And Peter said his resurrection from the dead placed him on David's Throne in heaven above. Paul says this will last until he destroys death in the resurrection at the last day. At which time he delivers the kingdom up to the Father.
Jesus said, unless a person is born again, they cannot see the kingdom. This is why most miss it. Anyone can can see a physical kingdom coming in the future. They do not need to be born again to see that. There are other reasons there will never be a physical kingdom on this present earth, but this is enough for now.
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-11T09:08:55-04:00 — #18
I'm not. Me and you disagree on what death, dying, and being dead means. I'll never see Death. I will see the kingdom of Jesus, so in this scripture he spoke to me as once I read it, I was one who would never taste death but would see the Kingdom of Jesus come, not by observation but within.
Again here we disagree. Death was made a mockery on the cross, as Jesus willing entered into death and put on display that it has ZERO power over those who are The Fathers. The Romans and Jews used the fear of death, [I could even go further taking this back to the garden where Satan and Eve had a discussion regarding death, but this is enough for now) to place in bondage nations, and people. Satan also preyed upon this fear, but my Savior Jesus, in Roman fashion put the enemy of death on display on the cross, conquered it and Rose again with All power. If he rose with all power, then how can death have power anymore. If death has no more power, then where is its sting?
I read the same scripture. Being relatively close to Christ (the feet of Jesus), and saw the kingdom of Jesus come into my life. I shall never taste death now, and even as I read the kingdom would come before I would taste death.
I appreciate you for giving your understanding of the scripture and sharing your views, which is why I asked them. I'm always enlightened to learn your stances on scriptures. Be Blessed. Thank you for sharing them.
dave_l — 2017-08-11T09:51:28-04:00 — #19
You were not there. He was not speaking to you. Some in his audience saw the Kingdom arrive in Jesus' resurrection from the dead, completed at Pentecost.
But all still die. As it is appointed for men to die once, but after this comes the judgment, Hebrews 9:27
So why all the funeral homes?
tyrone_howard — 2017-08-11T11:36:35-04:00 — #20
The kingdom cannot be completed that doesn't even make sense, he rules Forever, his Kingdom shall have no end. The kingdom did not arrive and complete at pentecost.
Well, We Sleep. We do not experience death the way it was experienced before Christ.
Gotta do something with all the empty shells.
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